>…and when a cement truck hauling 10 yards of wet cement rolls over your
>little putt-putt at the bottom of a loooooooong 6 1/2% down grade because
>his wheel brakes have overheated and faded you’ll be saying "why didn’t you
>use your Jake brake?".  I would not drive a truck without a Jake brake, or
>some other type of compression braking, because I know that the wheel brakes
>are not enough when you’re trying to keep a large vehicle under control.

Why not put a muffler on the Jake brake?  The Jake brake is almost as
load as unmuffled engine exhaust.

Bob Hale                                      …!ucsd!btree!hale
…!btree!h…@ucsd.edu                       …!ucsd!btree!h…@uunet.uu.net

|> I  am constantly amazed at the number of times I see a truck leave
|> a nice gap in front coming up to traffic lights, only for some moron
|> in a car change lanes into the truck’s braking area.

Trucks and cars on the same road is a poor mixture.  In the governments’
typical way of getting things upside down trucks are ofter banned from the left
or "fast" lane of interstate.  A real blue ticket ride in the Washington DC area
is to try to get to an exit when the right two lanes are crowded with trucks.
Lets give the left lane to the trucks, especially the thru traffic.

>j…@access.digex.com (Jim Brooking) writes:
>> In article <1992Aug26.144306.28…@berlioz.nsc.com> a…@lancaster.nsc.com (T
>> >…and when a cement truck hauling 10 yards of wet cement rolls over your
>> >little putt-putt at the bottom of a loooooooong 6 1/2% down grade because
>> >his wheel brakes have overheated and faded you’ll be saying "why didn’t you
>> >use your Jake brake?".

>> No… I’d say, "Why don’t you get a good lawyer, ’cause you’re gonna need
>> one."  (Assuming I survived)  I’m sick & tired of seeing idiot
>> truck drivers hauling ass with a full load and driving like general
>As far as Mario wannabes, I don’t know how many times I’ve seen a truck
>trying to follow a car at a safe distance, only to have car after car
>cut into his cushion, forcing him to back off farther.  

I  am constantly amazed at the number of times I see a truck leave
a nice gap in front coming up to traffic lights, only for some moron
in a car change lanes into the truck’s braking area. It would not be
uncommon for a truck to lose 10 or 15 metres of braking area this way.
People don’t seem to realize that all that kinetic energy cannot be
just thrown away. Having a truck license (not often used) I know of
what I speak, and the temptation to ram the car that does it is very
powerful – as in NSW you are almost certain to get away with it.

thos
—
thos cohen                                     |Softway Pty Ltd
 The best way to make a Japanese engineer wince|ACSnet:         t…@softway.oz
 is (when talking about an NSX) to say slowly  |UUCP: …!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 ’but its _not a Ferrari_ is it?’ R.Bulgin, CAR|Internet:    t…@softway.oz.au

|> j…@access.digex.com (Jim Brooking) writes:
|>
|> FYI… Most truck drivers, when filling out job applications, will come across
|> a section like:
|>
|> Accidents in the past 10 years:
|> Fatalaties in the past 10 years:
|> ^^^^^^^^^^
|>
|> For that matter, a truck driver has to go to school for several months, and
|> to get their CDL they have to actually prove they can handle what they’re
|> driving. (I mean backup and park, not just motor around the block).  Then,
|> of course, is the mandatory drug testing, the bi-annual physicals…

For those who haven’t tried for a CDL (Class A in Calif) there are 2 written
tests, and a road test that takes over an hour.  You make an appointment to
take the written tests.  You bring with you a medical form signed by your
doctor, after he has given you a complete physical.  If you pass both written
tests you can make an appointment for the road test.  For the road test you
must show up in the type of vehicle you want to be licensed for:  ie if you
want to haul duals you better have both trailers with you.  The first step in
the road test is to convince the examiner that you know how to safety check
your vehicle.  The examiner will follow you as you check all tires, brakes,
cables, chains, etc.  Then you start driving.  The first thing you must do is
to pull forward to a line drawn on the roadway.  You lose 1 point for every 6
inches that your front bumper is short of, or over, that line.  Then you must
back up between 2 rows of cones, without touching a cone, for a distance of
50 feet.  Then you hit the road.  You are observed on city streets, highways,
in all types of traffic conditions.

Even with this testing it is common for drivers with an attitude to get their
license.  And with costs rising almost exponentially, it is very tempting for
younger drivers to try and make ends meet by exceeding their allotted driving
time.  But overall, I would rather drive with a pack of truckers than a pack of
yuppie car drivers.

–
Alan Hepburn           "An ignorant person is one who doesn’t know
National Semiconductor       what you have just found out."
Santa Clara, Ca              
a…@berlioz.nsc.com                              Will Rogers

|> In article <1992Aug26.144306.28…@berlioz.nsc.com> a…@lancaster.nsc.com (The Hepburn) writes:
|> >
|> >…and when a cement truck hauling 10 yards of wet cement rolls over your
|> >little putt-putt at the bottom of a loooooooong 6 1/2% down grade because
|> >his wheel brakes have overheated and faded you’ll be saying "why didn’t you
|> >use your Jake brake?".
|>
|> No… I’d say, "Why don’t you get a good lawyer, ’cause you’re gonna need
|> one."  (Assuming I survived)  I’m sick & tired of seeing idiot
|> truck drivers hauling ass with a full load and driving like general
|> morons…  Every couple of months around here one of those
|> dump-truck-driving Mario Andretti wannabes gets into a (usually) fatal
|> rear-end collision with a 4 wheeler.  Not bright.

It’s been my experience that a lot of those type of accidents are, in fact,
caused by the wannabees in the roller skates who decide at the last possible
moment that they want to occupy the space in front of the truck.  I’ve driven
many, many miles and have had some real winners try some really interesting
manoeuvres in my vicinity.  I’m not saying it’s all the car driver’s fault; I
agree taht you will find drivers of all types of vehicles that manage to find
the driver’s license window at the local Salvation Army.  But what a lot of
drivers don’t think about is the stopping distance required by a fully-loaded
truck.  Government de-regulation has’t helped either.  In the past it took a
lot to get a job driving.  Now everybody with the down payment can go out and
buy a truck and start driving.  The overall experience level has dropped
alarmingly, and with it a rise in accidents has been seen.  But to blame the
truck driver for all rear-end type accidents is simplistic, at best.
|>
|> My problem with jake brakes is purely the fact that they can be heard for
|> several miles.  I don’t believe noise is necessary for good braking…
|>
Yes, they are loud.  But that energy has to be converted to something.  
Converting to heat is what the wheel brakes do, and you can only dissipate
so much heat.  And I would rather hear a jake brake doing its job than a
motorcycle wound out to 12 grand on a city street.

–
Alan Hepburn           "An ignorant person is one who doesn’t know
National Semiconductor       what you have just found out."
Santa Clara, Ca              
a…@berlioz.nsc.com                              Will Rogers

     Any engine converts energy from one form to another.  A gasoline engine
     converts potential energy into motion.  A brake system converts motion
     into something else… Friction brakes convert motion into heat.  Problem is,
     after a while you glaze the brake shoes, the friction coefficient goes down,
     and they loose effectiveness.  A jake brake system uses the diesel engine
     as a compressor, converting speed into potential energy as compressed air,
     which is then released, converting the energy to noise.

Agreed except that you do not have to make noise.  All you need is a good
muffler.  The muffler for normal driving is designed for deriving condition
and is not good enough for breaking.  I guess when "jake brake" is banned by
enough localities you will see better mufflers.

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

j…@access.digex.com (Jim Brooking) writes:
> In article <1992Aug26.144306.28…@berlioz.nsc.com> a…@lancaster.nsc.com (T
> >In article <1992Aug22.170200.11…@access.digex.com>, j…@access.digex.com
> >|>
> >|>
> >|> They should outlaw those damn things EVERYWHERE…

> >…and when a cement truck hauling 10 yards of wet cement rolls over your
> >little putt-putt at the bottom of a loooooooong 6 1/2% down grade because
> >his wheel brakes have overheated and faded you’ll be saying "why didn’t you
> >use your Jake brake?".

> No… I’d say, "Why don’t you get a good lawyer, ’cause you’re gonna need
> one."  (Assuming I survived)  I’m sick & tired of seeing idiot
> truck drivers hauling ass with a full load and driving like general
> morons…  Every couple of months around here one of those
> dump-truck-driving Mario Andretti wannabes gets into a (usually) fatal
> rear-end collision with a 4 wheeler.  Not bright.

FYI… Most truck drivers, when filling out job applications, will come across
a section like:

Accidents in the past 10 years:
Fatalaties in the past 10 years:
^^^^^^^^^^

For that matter, a truck driver has to go to school for several months, and
to get their CDL they have to actually prove they can handle what they’re
driving. (I mean backup and park, not just motor around the block).  Then,
of course, is the mandatory drug testing, the bi-annual physicals…

As far as Mario wannabes, I don’t know how many times I’ve seen a truck
trying to follow a car at a safe distance, only to have car after car
cut into his cushion, forcing him to back off farther.  

> My problem with jake brakes is purely the fact that they can be heard for
> several miles.  I don’t believe noise is necessary for good braking…

Any engine converts energy from one form to another.  A gasoline engine
converts potential energy into motion.  A brake system converts motion
into something else… Friction brakes convert motion into heat.  Problem is,
after a while you glaze the brake shoes, the friction coefficient goes down,
and they loose effectiveness.  A jake brake system uses the diesel engine
as a compressor, converting speed into potential energy as compressed air,
which is then released, converting the energy to noise.

–
Dean Woodward           |  OK.  Last time.  This is my machine. This is my
d…@fringe.rain.com    |     Opinion.  This is my opinion on my machine.
                                          Any Questions?               -me

>>2. My problem with jake brakes is purely the fact that they can be heard for
>>several miles. 1. I don’t believe noise is necessary for good braking…

>Well, 1. You’re wrong and 2. Who cares.

Wrong?  There are lots of heavy vehicles which brake just fine without
disturbing every living being within a 10 mile radius.  Loud bad-ass
Jake Brakes are the exception rather than the rule.

Who cares?  Obviously several localities care enough to make their use
illegal…

–
j…@access.digex.com  | (Cage) 1991 323se     ZCP-710   |     Comus Road
Merry Land (MD) U.S.A. | (Bike) 1986 GSXR750    (sold)   |     ClarksBURG
——————————————————————————
But of course, I have three eyes.  I have clairvoyant paranoia.  -King Missile

>No… I’d say, "Why don’t you get a good lawyer, ’cause you’re gonna need
>one."  (Assuming I survived)  I’m sick & tired of seeing idiot

excellent mentality.

>truck drivers hauling ass with a full load and driving like general
>morons…  Every couple of months around here one of those
>dump-truck-driving Mario Andretti wannabes gets into a (usually) fatal
>rear-end collision with a 4 wheeler.  Not bright.

every thirty seconds a passenger-car-driving wannabee gets into a
(usually) fatal rear-end collision with another 4 wheeler. Not bright.

>2. My problem with jake brakes is purely the fact that they can be heard for
>several miles. 1. I don’t believe noise is necessary for good braking…

Well, 1. You’re wrong and 2. Who cares.