Driving automobiles

San Fransisco "Cross Walks"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM

The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.

I’ve never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
video, this "crossing" is very badly marked.  Are these types of
crossings standard across the country?  Are there any warning signs
leading up to these crossings?  Why not use a Zebra crossing layout instead?

.
posted by admin in Uncategorized and have Comments (15)

15 Responses to “San Fransisco "Cross Walks"”

  1. admin says:

    On Sep 26, 8:46 am, Sir Lex <S…@no-spam.com.au> wrote:

    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM

    > The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
    > way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.

    And documents the only incidences of that crosswalk ever being "used".

    > I’ve never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
    > video, this "crossing" is very badly marked.

    Irrelevant, since nobody is going to stop for some homeless loser,
    regardless.

    > Are these types of
    > crossings standard across the country?

    Pretty much.

    > Are there any warning signs
    > leading up to these crossings?

    Often, if not always.

    > Why not use a Zebra crossing layout instead?

    Waste of paint.
     -
    Right-of-Way at Crosswalks

    (b) <> No pedestrian may unnecessarily stop or delay traffic while in
    a marked or unmarked crosswalk.
    http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21950.htm

    Stopping traffic is never "necessary" since a pedestrian can wait for
    nightfall, or whenever traffic might not be "inconvenienced".

    If the ticketed drivers contest the charge, no prosecutor would
    pursue, because no judge would convict.  Attempting to cross such a
    street at an uncontrolled intersection might be considered evidence of
    insanity.
     —–

    - gpsman

  2. admin says:

    In article <1190816209.241335.270…@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>,

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

     gpsman <gps…@driversmail.com> wrote:
    > On Sep 26, 8:46 am, Sir Lex <S…@no-spam.com.au> wrote:
    > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM

    > > The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
    > > way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.

    > And documents the only incidences of that crosswalk ever being "used".

    > > I’ve never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
    > > video, this "crossing" is very badly marked.

    > Irrelevant, since nobody is going to stop for some homeless loser,
    > regardless.

    > > Are these types of
    > > crossings standard across the country?

    > Pretty much.

    > > Are there any warning signs
    > > leading up to these crossings?

    > Often, if not always.

    > > Why not use a Zebra crossing layout instead?

    > Waste of paint.
    >  -
    > Right-of-Way at Crosswalks

    > (b) <> No pedestrian may unnecessarily stop or delay traffic while in
    > a marked or unmarked crosswalk.
    > http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21950.htm

    Interesting that you failed to post paragraph (a)…

    "The driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian
    crossing the roadway within any marked crosswalk or within any unmarked
    crosswalk at an intersection, except as otherwise provided in this
    chapter.

    > Stopping traffic is never "necessary" since a pedestrian can wait for
    > nightfall, or whenever traffic might not be "inconvenienced".

    "inconvenienced" appears nowhere on the referenced page, and your
    straight reading of the paragraph is just plain wrong. Once the
    pedestrian is *in* the crosswalk, he cannot stop or delay traffic
    unnecessarily (.i.e he can’t just stand there, but must cross with
    reasonable speed).

    > If the ticketed drivers contest the charge, no prosecutor would
    > pursue, because no judge would convict.  Attempting to cross such a
    > street at an uncontrolled intersection might be considered evidence of
    > insanity.
    >  —–

    > – gpsman


    Alan Baker
    Vancouver, British Columbia
    "If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
    to that wall, you’ll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
    sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

  3. admin says:

     Sir Lex:

    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM

    > The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
    > way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.

    Something I see on a daily basis when I walk, save for the cops actually
    doing anything about it. But then again, since it is a monetary fine
    instead of jail time for the offender, I suspect that revenue and/or
    quotas are the real reason for the sudden crackdown. I’ve pretty much
    learned to just wait untill the intersection is clear and I can cross
    before the next round of cars arrives before I proceed when walking.

    > I’ve never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
    > video, this "crossing" is very badly marked.  Are these types of
    > crossings standard across the country?

    Those crosswalks are pretty badly marked. One thing I will give this
    little town I live in credit for is that the roads are fairly well
    marked compared to other places I have been. That includes the
    crosswalks.

    > Are there any warning signs leading up to these crossings?

    Sometimes, usually around school zones. Not that that gets the attention
    of people like, "Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS," which the
    roads are full of.

    > Why not use a Zebra crossing layout instead?

    Around here they use something similar. Next walk or pedalcycle ride,
    I’ll try to get a picture of one to show what they use here.


    "Oh yeah.  Well i’ve gone 3 1/2 years without a fatal crash
    so i must be doing something right."

    –Laura Bush murdered her boyfriend/laura bush – VEHICULAR HOMICIDE/
    Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are Murderers (SADDAM), 9/24/2006

    Ref: http://tinyurl.com/qdotr
    Msg ID: ivadh2t9kd05ilrgdercft8iuvcls6r…@4ax.com

  4. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    In article <alangbaker-41F5EC.09140426092…@news.telus.net>, Alan Baker wrote:
    > In article <1190816209.241335.270…@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>,
    >  gpsman <gps…@driversmail.com> wrote:
    >> Right-of-Way at Crosswalks

    >> (b) <> No pedestrian may unnecessarily stop or delay traffic while in
    >> a marked or unmarked crosswalk.
    >> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21950.htm

    > Interesting that you failed to post paragraph (a)…

    > "The driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian
    > crossing the roadway within any marked crosswalk or within any unmarked
    > crosswalk at an intersection, except as otherwise provided in this
    > chapter.

    >> Stopping traffic is never "necessary" since a pedestrian can wait for
    >> nightfall, or whenever traffic might not be "inconvenienced".

    > "inconvenienced" appears nowhere on the referenced page, and your
    > straight reading of the paragraph is just plain wrong. Once the
    > pedestrian is *in* the crosswalk, he cannot stop or delay traffic
    > unnecessarily (.i.e he can’t just stand there, but must cross with
    > reasonable speed).

    Gpstroll is probably like the asshole I encountered last week. I am
    walking along and get to the point where a parking lot drive way crosses
    the sidewalk. This asshole in his crown vic or MGM starts turning into
    the parking lot and then stops just short of me then lurches his car to
    threaten to run me over stopping with his drivers window behind me. And I
    mean inches… as in a handful. I turn around and rap my knuckles on his
    driver’s side window and keep on walking. Asshat lowers the window and
    starts yelling… then he lurches his car forward and decides to fling
    open his door. Asshat realizes I’m about 4-50 years younger and a good
    deal taller than him, closes the door and then rushes off to the mailbox to
    mail his oh-so-important mail.

    Just another day in MFFY land….

  5. admin says:

    On Sep 26, 12:14 pm, Alan Baker <alangba…@telus.net> wrote:>

    >  gpsman <gps…@driversmail.com> wrote:

    > > (b) <> No pedestrian may unnecessarily stop or delay traffic while in
    > > a marked or unmarked crosswalk.
    > >http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21950.htm

    > Interesting that you failed to post paragraph (a)

    Duh.  It’s irrelevant.

    ROW is based on velocity.  Highest velocity has the ROW.  Any lower
    velocity must yield.  The vehicles were traveling at higher velocity
    than the "pedestrians".

    I would think this would be obvious.

    > > Stopping traffic is never "necessary" since a pedestrian can wait for
    > > nightfall, or whenever traffic might not be "inconvenienced".

    > "inconvenienced" appears nowhere on the referenced page, and your
    > straight reading of the paragraph is just plain wrong. Once the
    > pedestrian is *in* the crosswalk, he cannot stop or delay traffic
    > unnecessarily (.i.e he can’t just stand there, but must cross with
    > reasonable speed).

    You gotta be shittin’ me.

    (b) <> No pedestrian may unnecessarily stop or delay traffic while in
    a marked or unmarked crosswalk.

    Did you see any drivers who seemed to believe a stop or delay was
    necessary?

    Therefore, any stop or delay -was- "unnecessary".

    What are ya, stupid?
     —–

    - gpsman

  6. admin says:

    In article <46fa546b$0$4585$5a62a…@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>, Sir Lex wrote:
    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM

    > The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
    > way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.

    > I’ve never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
    > video, this "crossing" is very badly marked.  Are these types of
    > crossings standard across the country?  Are there any warning signs
    > leading up to these crossings?  Why not use a Zebra crossing layout instead?

    That was nothing. When I lived on chicago’s south side, drivers AIMED at
    peds crossing in the cross walk. Well except near the projects…. there
    peds would step out at panic-stop distances looking for a lawsuit or just
    doing some power-trip.

  7. admin says:

    In article <alangbaker-41F5EC.09140426092…@news.telus.net>,
    Alan Baker  <alangba…@telus.net> wrote:

    >Interesting that you failed to post paragraph (a)…

    >"The driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian
    >crossing the roadway within any marked crosswalk or within any unmarked
    >crosswalk at an intersection, except as otherwise provided in this
    >chapter.

    Unfortunately, the cops seem to think this means that all traffic must
    stop for a little-old-lady crossing a 6-lane highway, even if there’s
    no way Carl Lewis could get to the driver’s lane before the driver was
    gone.  If there’s no conflict of right of way, there should be no
    issue of yielding it.

      There’s no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
      result in a fully-depreciated one.

  8. admin says:

     Sir Lex:

    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM

    > The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
    > way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.

    > I’ve never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
    > video, this "crossing" is very badly marked.  Are these types of
    > crossings standard across the country?  Are there any warning signs
    > leading up to these crossings?  Why not use a Zebra crossing layout instead?

    Is this what you mean by "Zebra crossing layout?"

    http://tinyurl.com/28lq8w


    necromancer

    Deadly Psychopath. And Proud of it, Man!!

  9. admin says:

    "Sir Lex" <S…@no-spam.com.au> wrote in message

    news:46fa546b$0$4585$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au…
    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM

    > The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
    > way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.

    > I’ve never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
    > video, this "crossing" is very badly marked.  Are these types of
    > crossings standard across the country?  Are there any warning signs
    > leading up to these crossings?  Why not use a Zebra crossing layout

    instead?

    Most crossings are just double white parallel lines marking the pedestrian
    crossing area.

  10. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    necromancer wrote:
    >  Sir Lex:
    >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM

    >> The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
    >> way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.

    >> I’ve never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
    >> video, this "crossing" is very badly marked.  Are these types of
    >> crossings standard across the country?  Are there any warning signs
    >> leading up to these crossings?  Why not use a Zebra crossing layout instead?

    > Is this what you mean by "Zebra crossing layout?"

    > http://tinyurl.com/28lq8w

    Exactly.  Or these:

    http://www.driveandstayalive.com/images/pedestrian-crossing_uk_zebra-

    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/lbug/images/darlingst5.jpg

    I’m just baffled as to how two single lines running against traffic can
    be deemed appropriate to highlight a cross walk/pedestrian crossing?
    The extra markings of a zebra crossing would surely make the crossing
    far more visible to traffic?

    Different strokes for different folks I guess.

    Pun intended?… maybe :-)

  11. admin says:

    Sir Lex wrote:
    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM

    > The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
    > way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.

    > I’ve never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
    > video, this "crossing" is very badly marked.  Are these types of
    > crossings standard across the country?  Are there any warning signs
    > leading up to these crossings?  Why not use a Zebra crossing layout
    > instead?

    Are there any traffic lights at these intersections?  If there are,
    wouldn’t it make more sense for pedestrians to wait for the walk signal
    prior to crossing?

  12. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    Scott in SoCal wrote:
    > Sir Lex <S…@no-spam.com.au> said in rec.autos.driving:

    >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM

    >> The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
    >> way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.

    >> I’ve never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
    >> video, this "crossing" is very badly marked.  

    > It’s in an obvious place where you KNOW a crosswalk is going to be.
    > According to the law, it does not need to be marked at all – drivers
    > must still yield to pedestrians.

    >> Are these types of crossings standard across the country?  

    > Pretty much.

    >> Are there any warning signs leading up to these crossings?  

    > No, because nobody needs them – everybody KNOWS there is a crosswalk
    > at an urban intersection like that. The only time there are warning
    > signs is when the crosswalk is in an unexpected place, such as the
    > middle of a block.

    Fair enough.  So drivers don’t give way to pedestrians here, simply out
    of arrogance?

    >> Why not use a Zebra crossing layout instead?

    > Waste of paint.

    I found the whole video odd as here in Australia, I must’ve used
    crossings thousands of times in my lifetime, and the number of times
    drivers have failed to give way to me are so few, that I can clearly
    remember both occasions.

    We also use Zebra crossings here.  The only time an arrangement of two
    lines painted across the road is used is when there are also a set of
    traffic lights to control traffic.

  13. admin says:

    On Sep 27, 8:40 am, Sir Lex <S…@no-spam.com.au> wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > Scott in SoCal wrote:
    > > Sir Lex <S…@no-spam.com.au> said in rec.autos.driving:

    > >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM

    > >> The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
    > >> way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.

    > >> I’ve never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
    > >> video, this "crossing" is very badly marked.  

    > > It’s in an obvious place where you KNOW a crosswalk is going to be.
    > > According to the law, it does not need to be marked at all – drivers
    > > must still yield to pedestrians.

    > >> Are these types of crossings standard across the country?  

    > > Pretty much.

    > >> Are there any warning signs leading up to these crossings?  

    > > No, because nobody needs them – everybody KNOWS there is a crosswalk
    > > at an urban intersection like that. The only time there are warning
    > > signs is when the crosswalk is in an unexpected place, such as the
    > > middle of a block.

    > Fair enough.  So drivers don’t give way to pedestrians here, simply out
    > of arrogance?

    > >> Why not use a Zebra crossing layout instead?

    > > Waste of paint.

    > I found the whole video odd as here in Australia, I must’ve used
    > crossings thousands of times in my lifetime, and the number of times
    > drivers have failed to give way to me are so few, that I can clearly
    > remember both occasions.

    > We also use Zebra crossings here.  The only time an arrangement of two
    > lines painted across the road is used is when there are also a set of
    > traffic lights to control traffic.- Hide quoted text –

    > – Show quoted text –

    Here on Long Island (NY), the general layout on non-residental streets
    (main roads/arterials) was for the ‘outlined’ crosswalk (double lines
    a set distance apart running from curb to curb, pedestrians nominally
    walk between the lines).
    However, over the past few years (decade?), ‘Zebra’ crossing (to me,
    defined as a series of painted bars, running from curb to curb, each
    bar line parallel to the direction of traffic) have become much more
    commonplace.
    In most residental areas (on secondary roads), no crosswalk lines are
    provided at intersections, and the crosswalk(s) are implicit –
    apparently no muncipality wants to ‘waste’ paint on those.

  14. admin says:

     Sir Lex:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > necromancer wrote:
    > >  Sir Lex:
    > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sbe00lgHNM

    > >> The video above is of a police sting targetting drivers failing to give
    > >> way to pedestrians on San Fransisco cross walks.

    > >> I’ve never been to SF or indeed, the US, but from what I can see in the
    > >> video, this "crossing" is very badly marked.  Are these types of
    > >> crossings standard across the country?  Are there any warning signs
    > >> leading up to these crossings?  Why not use a Zebra crossing layout instead?

    > > Is this what you mean by "Zebra crossing layout?"

    > > http://tinyurl.com/28lq8w

    > Exactly.  Or these:

    > http://www.driveandstayalive.com/images/pedestrian-crossing_uk_zebra-

    > http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/lbug/images/darlingst5.jpg

    Just my curiosity, but what do the zig-zagging lines mean?

    > I’m just baffled as to how two single lines running against traffic can
    > be deemed appropriate to highlight a cross walk/pedestrian crossing?
    > The extra markings of a zebra crossing would surely make the crossing
    > far more visible to traffic?

    Good question. There are a couple of corsswalks that are in the middle
    of intersections around here that are the "Zebra," type and also have a
    crosswalk warning light system (drivers must yield of the lights which
    are embedded in the road surface are flashing), yet some drivers still
    don’t see them.

    > Different strokes for different folks I guess.

    > Pun intended?… maybe :-)


    necromancer

    Deadly Psychopath. And Proud of it, Man!!

  15. admin says:

    On Sep 27, 4:10 pm, necromancer
    <55_sux@worldofnecromancer_nospam_noway.org> wrote:
    > Just my curiosity, but what do the zig-zagging lines mean?

    Well, I thought they were there as a psychological measure (Alert!
    Zebra Crossing coming up!), but the real answer seems a lot simplier:
    The Zig-zag lines define the ‘controlled’ area of the crossing

    "They also have zigzag lines along the edge of the road on both sides
    of the crossing, where vehicles may not park. This is so that
    visibility is kept to the maximum for both pedestrians and drivers,
    but this area is not intended to be used for crossing the road"
    and
    "Zig zag lines are placed before and after the crossing to protect the
    crossing. There are two things drivers’ should never do within the zig
    zag lines, these are:
    Park and leave your vehicle. As this will obscure the view of oncoming
    traffic when approaching the crossing.
    Overtake. A driver should never overtake within the zig zag lines, as
    this will endanger the pedestrian who is on the crossing."