First of all, the prefix "kilo" (thousand) has a small ‘k’. Second of all, a "meter" is a device. a "metre" is a unit of distance. Thirdly, the proper abbreviaton is "km/h". " "kph" is strictly a US mislabelling, basically as a carry over from ‘mph.’
So, the proper phrase is:
km/h = kilometres per hour.
Colin
————————————————————————- ********************** Protein Engineering Network of * Colin Bigam * Centres of Excellence * .sig stolen from * * MISSION CONTROL * ********************** c…@procyon.biochem.ualberta.ca ————————————————————————-
> }I have seen many accidants in my life…but that one…never seen a > car broken > }up like that in my life…apparantly a guy who was doing about 50 > to 70 kmh > }lost control of the car (in a Miata) and crashed into a > house…they driver > }died…You Guys should see how that piece of crap was crashed on > the front…. > }How can they sell a car like that in the Market.. > > There’s a major difference between 50kph and 70kph– which was it? > > > — > Matthew T. Russotto russo…@eng.umd.edu
There is no major difference between 50 km/h and 70 km/h in a Miata. Either way, you hit anything and you’re sushi. I am surprised the general public flocked to such crappy sardine cans as the Miata, when safety is becoming such a huge issue with the consumer. The Miatas aren’t designed right in the first place. The least MAZDA corp, could do would be to add a roll bar behind the rear seat. This modification can be made, and I’ve seen several miatas with this added level of safety. The manufacturer couldn’t care less, as it would cost them a couple of dollars extra. Yeah, shave a bit of the metal as well. The thinner it is, the lighter…and you know, the lighter, the faster…and the more gas economical, and the better rating we get from Consumer Reports.
A friend of mine was at his Mazda dealer, and a salesperson was trying to push him into a special edition Miata. He told the salesperson, "But if I crash this car, I’ll die." The salesperson said, "But you’ll look good dead."
Till the Japanese stop producing unsafe cars well into the 90′s, I shall not purchase a Japanese automobile. I feel that they’re more interested in making a fast buck, rather than caring about the consumer’s well-being. They haven’t been doing too well environmentally either.
Right now I drive a newer model German car. These cars are a model of recyclability, safety, durability and clear thinking.
> You need a lot more information before you write off the Miata as a > "tin can piece of crap". For instance, most everyone would agree > that > a small, lightweight vehicle fares less well in an accident > situation > than does a larger, heavier vehicle .. ALL OTHER VARIABLES BEING > EQUAL.
The point becomes moot, as soon as we cut the statistic or scientific data that is not available. The Miata has no realistic roll-over protection. The metal used on the Miata is far less rigid than it could be. For a small car such as the miata, a satisfactory level of rigidity would be like the VW GOLF III’s.
> comparable to the Miata, fare in that same accident situation? If > you > have data which says that the Miata breaks up more readily in an > accident than do other comparatively sized cars under similar > accident > conditions, I’d sure be interested in looking at it. But if that is > indeed the case, how do you explain the fact that, in general, the > insurance rates are relatively low for the Miata .. especially > considering the fact that it’s a sports car? Wouldn’t insurance > companies demand high rates on a vehicle if statistics showed that > vehicle to have a propensity to fall apart in accident situations?
The insurance companies do not get these statistics, as these studies don’t exist. I’m not sure how insurance companies in the U.S work, but I would imagine that they would set rates based on whether the particular model is expensive to repair.
> if the Miata is so poorly constructed, why does it receive auto > magazine accolades, year after year, as one of the best cars you can > buy for the money? Do I own one? You bet! Would I trade it for > anything in its price range? Never happen.
Hmm..let’s see. If I recall correctly, auto magazine reviewers are heavily bribed and influenced by car manufacturers.
> certainly the Miata is a lightly constructed car compared to some, > but nobody would expect it to fare as well as a larger car in a > crash situation. reports i’ve heard have suggested that they do > reasonably well in crashes. basically, you pays your money and > you takes your chances. if safety is an overriding concern, buy > something else (certainly not a convertible!).
Why not a convertible? The BMW 3 series convertibles have roll-over protection that are as good as the car in sedan form. The VW Cabriolet, has a roll bar that can support much more than it’s own weight. Those convertibles are as safe or safer than the average car on the road wouldn’t you say?
>>it’s Kph…..(kilometer per hour) >No, it’s ***NOT***!!! (for several reasons…)
>First of all, the prefix "kilo" (thousand) has a small ‘k’.
I assume the K was for emphasis, since it was properly lower case in the parenthetical explanation, but otherwise correct.
>Second of all, a "meter" is a device. a "metre" is a unit of distance.
Only in places that have an anglophilic tendency. Journals of the other persuasion will use their computers to correct such tendencies. But if you are arguing for logic, why is centre used for both a geometric feature and a large building?
>Thirdly, the proper abbreviaton is "km/h". " "kph" is strictly a US >mislabelling, basically as a carry over from ‘mph.’
But km/h is technically wrong, since 1000 m/3600 s = 0.27 m/s. Because there is no advantage gained in the scale of the numbers (km/h and m/s are of the same order of magnitude), an SI-retentive metric country should use m/s instead of km/h. This would even have a safety feature, reminding people how fast they are really going.
So, since even using km/h is a carryover from using mph, writing kph would be fine. However, after all that nit picking, it is worth noting that the original poster is simply wrong: km/h is used in the U.S. I have seen it on highway signs. My guess is that it is done to reduce the chance that one of our poorly trained drivers with bad vision might confuse kph with mph. "But officer, the sign said 95!" "It said Interstate 95."
– James A. Carr <j…@scri.fsu.edu> | Raw data, like raw sewage, http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac | requires some processing before Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | it can be spread around. The Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 | opposite is true of theories.
In article <9408230307.A545…@dynamite.com>, <ryan.ra…@dynamite.com> wrote: } } } > }I have seen many accidants in my life…but that one…never seen a } > car broken } > }up like that in my life…apparantly a guy who was doing about 50 } > to 70 kmh } > }lost control of the car (in a Miata) and crashed into a } > house…they driver } > }died…You Guys should see how that piece of crap was crashed on } > the front…. } > }How can they sell a car like that in the Market.. } > } > There’s a major difference between 50kph and 70kph– which was it? } }There is no major difference between 50 km/h and 70 km/h in a Miata. Either }way, you hit anything and you’re sushi.
I’m sorry, I though I was dealing with a reasonably intelligent but somewhat emotional person. Instead, I see that I’m dealing with a moronic flamer who ought to be run over by a Miata doing the 2kph difference between those two speeds. It just so happens that the Miata I drive was once crashed into a guardrail at 35-40mph. The driver received a concussion, a broken hand, and some abrasions from the airbag, but was not "sushi".
}I am surprised the general public }flocked to such crappy sardine cans as the Miata, when safety is becoming such }a huge issue with the consumer. The Miatas aren’t designed right in the first }place. The least MAZDA corp, could do would be to add a roll bar behind the }rear seat. This modification can be made, and I’ve seen several miatas with }this added level of safety.
Probably by people who race them. The current Miatas have a bar to stiffen the chassis there, but no roll bar. A roll bar would, of course, make no difference in a head-on collision. The Miata does not crush flat when rolled, BTW– the A-pillars and the top of the windshield frame remain intact. The local salespeople showed pictures when they were asked about rollovers in a Miata.
}The manufacturer couldn’t care less, as it would }cost them a couple of dollars extra. Yeah, shave a bit of the metal as well. }The thinner it is, the lighter…and you know, the lighter, the faster…and }the more gas economical, and the better rating we get from Consumer Reports.
Check the weight and economy of the Lexus LS400– CRs top rated car. I doubt Mazda was aiming for the person who buys cars solely on Consumer Reports recommendations– that’s what the 323 and Protege were for.
}A friend of mine was at his Mazda dealer, and a salesperson was trying to push }him into a special edition Miata. He told the salesperson, "But if I crash }this car, I’ll die." }The salesperson said, "But you’ll look good dead."
Hell, after dealing with any friend of yours for any length of time, I’d figure he’d be better off dead too.
}Till the Japanese stop producing unsafe cars well into the 90′s, I shall not }purchase a Japanese automobile. I feel that they’re more interested in making }a fast buck, rather than caring about the consumer’s well-being. They haven’t }been doing too well environmentally either.
All the car companies are only interested in the consumer’s well-being inasmuch as it helps them make a buck.
}Right now I drive a newer model German car. These cars are a model of }recyclability, safety, durability and clear thinking.
And high price. And none of them makes anything like the Miata.
– Matthew T. Russotto russo…@eng.umd.edu Some news readers expect "Disclaimer:" here. Just say NO to police searches and seizures. Make them use force. (not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice)
>The point becomes moot, as soon as we cut the statistic or scientific data that >is not available.
Given the many thousands of Miata on the road (driven by happy owners who smile and wave at the drivers of other Miatas — ever see Taurus or BMW owners do that?) and the many that are drive in competition, there are plenty of statistics available on the car under both normal and rather extreme conditions.
> The Miata has no realistic roll-over protection.
This is true. A roll bar is required for Solo I competition. However, with its rigid frame, wide track, and low cg, one has to work at trying to roll it. In contrast, if you have ever seen a VW running autocross on 2-3 wheels, you know why they build a roll bar into the Cabrio. It scares the hell out of me watching those things in a slalom. A Miata needs to hit something to roll, not true of some others on the road.
Worst non-fatal I ever saw was a jeep (or equivalent) filled with students that flipped in a chicane on campus, pinning several under the roll cage. Unsafe in any S curve because of suspension rebound roll.
>used on the Miata is far less rigid than it could be. For a small car such as >the miata, a satisfactory level of rigidity would be like the VW GOLF III’s.
The sheet metal on the Miata is soft and light. The frame is not, mainly because of the extra frame that integrates the drive train into a single unit. One thing that surprised me about the Miata was that it is almost as heavy as the Accord hatchback it replaced. That and the fact that it is about the same length as a Tercel 2-door that parked next to me one day. My hood is longer, which helps in a crash.
The main weak point is, like other convertibles, body flex. The ’94 has a cross brace behind the driver to reduce this and add extra protection from side impact. That, and other sources of added weight along with new emissions controls, is why the ’94 needed a bigger engine.
>The insurance companies do not get these statistics, as these studies don’t >exist. >I’m not sure how insurance companies in the U.S work, but I would imagine that >they would set rates based on whether the particular model is expensive to >repair.
Well, if you are not sure, don’t talk. They set rates based on claims experience in it or, for a new model, similar cars. The index numbers determined by the industry as a whole were included in the reference material I looked over at the CU, but I asked my agent about them as well since I could not believe they could be the same as a sedan. Our Miata and our Subaru Legacy are almost identical in claims risk to the company. Comprehensive is low because the car is seldom stolen (unlike those late 80s GM cars that still lead the list), and the collision and PIP rates reflect accident rate and cost of repair to the car and its passengers. Now in its fifth year, the insurance industry has lots of experience with the Miata and they like it.
Other cars in its class have insurance rates that can be twice as high, or more, and do not cost twice as much. In fact, given the very slow depreciation of a Miata compared to those others, which start costing more and end up cheaper when used, you would expect the opposite to be true since insurance reflects the present value of the car.
– James A. Carr <j…@scri.fsu.edu> | Raw data, like raw sewage, http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac | requires some processing before Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | it can be spread around. The Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 | opposite is true of theories.
>There is no major difference between 50 km/h and 70 km/h in a Miata. Either >way, you hit anything and you’re sushi. I am surprised the general public
There is twice the energy to be dissipated at 70 as at 50. Most accidents at 50 km/h (30 mph) are survivable in any car sold in the US, although I have seen exceptions. The person killed in a Chrysler New Yorker by a 6-wheel pickup, for example, that would have been killed in any car.
Clearly you are as ignorant of the physics of automobile collisions as you are of the Miata if you think the energy of the car or the nature of the thing you hit has no effect on survivability.
>The thinner it is, the lighter…and you know, the lighter, the faster…and >the more gas economical, and the better rating we get from Consumer Reports.
People who drive the Miata don’t give a damn about Consumer Reports. In fact, CR does not much care for the Miata. They like cars with cupholders and a big trunk, and there are sedans with better mileage than a Miata. Shows how much you know — you probably don’t even know that it was designed by an American who went to Mazda when others turned him down.
>A friend of mine was at his Mazda dealer, and a salesperson was trying to push >him into a special edition Miata. He told the salesperson, "But if I crash >this car, I’ll die." >The salesperson said, "But you’ll look good dead."
Only in the red model. ;-)
There are a lot of cars around where you will die if you crash it.
>Right now I drive a newer model German car. These cars are a model of >recyclability, safety, durability and clear thinking.
Darn, I thought you drove a nice safe car like a Pinto.
But if you think that just because you spent a lot of money for your car that it is *safe*, you had better think again. There are no safe cars, only safe drivers.
– James A. Carr <j…@scri.fsu.edu> | Raw data, like raw sewage, http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac | requires some processing before Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | it can be spread around. The Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 | opposite is true of theories.
The original poster of this thread [attribution lost] said:
> > } > > }lost control of the car (in a Miata) and crashed into a > > house…they driver > > }died…You Guys should see how that piece of crap was crashed on > > the front…. > > }How can they sell a car like that in the Market..
Because some people like to drive them. How’s it any business of yours?
In article <9408230307.A545…@dynamite.com> ryan.ra…@dynamite.com writes: >… >The thinner it is, the lighter…and you know, the lighter, the faster…and >the more gas economical, and the better rating we get from Consumer Reports.
Condemner Reports flamed the Miata. They described it as having a "rough, sports car ride." Well, duh!!
Phil "might consider Miata if it had a ‘rough, sports car engine’" Mueller
– Phillip Mueller (that’s two ‘l’s!) pamue…@ingr.com
> > who smile and wave at the drivers of other Miatas — ever see Taurus > > or > > BMW owners do that?) and the many that are drive in competition,
> As a matter of fact, it is a tradition for BMW owners to flash their lights at > other BMWs. It started with 2002 drivers.
> Miata drivers are just wannabes I guess
Well, by gosh, I guess you’ve got all of us! Your analytical, unbiased, and verifyable responses to my points, and others in this string, have convinced me that your logic process is indeed one to emulate! Let’s see .. in your original post, you said that you had seen a Miata which had been involved in a fatal accident, and concluded, by this one observation, that the Miata was a tin can piece of crap. I’ll attempt to apply this logic process to an incident I actually witnessed on the way into work yesterday morning. I observed a late model BMW along the side of the road, with its hood raised and the driver talking on a cellular phone, apparently seeking roadside assistance. My conclusion, based on this observation, is that the BMW is a highly overpriced piece of euro-garbage which should not be allowed on american roads because it has a chronic tendency to break down. Hey! Maybe your logic process isn’t so screwed up after all! ;-)
In article <33ktr1$…@b30news.b30.ingr.com> pamue…@ingr.com (Phillip Mueller [that's two 'l's!]) writes:
>Condemner Reports flamed the Miata. They described it as having a "rough, >sports car ride." Well, duh!!
>Phil "might consider Miata if it had a ‘rough, sports car engine’" Mueller
Well, for the cost of a beemer or that Mercedes sports car/sedan, you can buy a Miata and have a company in California drop a 5 L ford V8 into it. With flowmasters, that should be just what you are looking for.
if it had a pair of wings …
– James A. Carr <j…@scri.fsu.edu> | Raw data, like raw sewage, http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac | requires some processing before Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | it can be spread around. The Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 | opposite is true of theories.
>I’m not sure how insurance companies in the U.S work, but I would imagine that >they would set rates based on whether the particular model is expensive to >repair.
Nah, in the US, your insurance pays for their damages.
Saw this last week om the Interstate: Tercel vs. Olds 88. Tercel looked like it’d been through a coffee grinder. Olds 88 had a broken windshield and a dented bumper.
Gotta love those big cars… hose off the dash and sell it to the next guy.
–
If at first you do succeed, you didn’t try something hard enough.
> > who smile and wave at the drivers of other Miatas — ever see Taurus > > or > > BMW owners do that?) and the many that are drive in competition,
>As a matter of fact, it is a tradition for BMW owners to flash their lights at >other BMWs. It started with 2002 drivers. >Miata drivers are just wannabes I guess
Started with the good ol’ Beetle. Beemer owners are wannabes, I guess. —
If at first you do succeed, you didn’t try something hard enough.
In article <9408260239.A627…@dynamite.com> ryan.ra…@dynamite.com writes: > As a matter of fact, it is a tradition for BMW owners to flash > their lights at other BMWs. It started with 2002 drivers.
>Miata drivers are just wannabes I guess
This custom goes back a lot further than the heyday of the 2002. In the United States, it used to be common among sports car aficionados in the Fifties, I understand.
As an aside, I’ve heard that many drivers of Porsche 356s and 911/912s refused to return the flashes of 914 drivers when the latter car first came out. Apparently Porsche owners were among the last hold-outs of the custom, until their cars became so commonplace.
Geoff
– -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Geoff Miller + + + + + + + + Mountain View geo…@netcom.com + DoD #0996 + California -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> Well, by gosh, I guess you’ve got all of us! Your analytical, > unbiased, and verifyable responses to my points, and others in this > string, have convinced me that your logic process is indeed one to > emulate!
A compliment? Yes, thank you.
> Let’s see .. in your original post, you said that you had seen a > Miata > which had been involved in a fatal accident, and concluded, by this > one > observation, that the Miata was a tin can piece of crap. I’ll
I wish I had seen this accident that you are talking about, but the fact remains that I have not. I was not the original poster that witnessed this accident. Maybe your so-far delightful experience with a Miata has begun to cloud your logic, but the fact remains that this death bento-box does not take passive safety into much consideration. Mazda built the Miata tiny and light, one would expect a responsible manufacturer to beef up the structure of such a small car, to ensure that it would be able to withstand real-world crash situations like other cars. Instead, the metal used is comparable, to the subject line of this thread.
At the Mazda dealer the other day, the first thing I noticed while sitting in a special edition Miata was the disregard for driver and passenger safety. In European cars, and many American cars, large knee bolsters are present to prevent cracking one’s kneecaps in the event of a frontal collision. Not only were this not present in the Miata, but the driver’s left knee cap was subject to the sharp intrusion of the headlight control unit.
Anybody who is approximately 6 feet tall has part of his head sticking above the windshield. Do you see any German, hell American convertible makers who have such low windshield pillars?
For a car to be allowed in the United States, it obviously has to pass a certain set of crash tests. Many Japanese manufacturers design their cars to excel in the 35 MPH full frontal impact crash barrier test. They are, however, disasterous in real world situations like an off-set impact. There are certain loopholes to be aware off: The crash test mandates that the driver seat rail be set to the middle position. Damage to the driver’s head is tallied by a points system where 1000 points is deemed fatal. If a car were to fail this test, instead of spending more money to redesign the car’s structure, the manufacturer would simply have to extend the seat rails further back, to ensure the seat-belt has more stretching distance to be effective.
> to apply this logic process to an incident I actually witnessed on > the > way into work yesterday morning. I observed a late model BMW along > the > side of the road, with its hood raised and the driver talking on a > cellular phone, apparently seeking roadside assistance. My > conclusion, > based on this observation, is that the BMW is a highly overpriced > piece > of euro-garbage which should not be allowed on american roads > because > it has a chronic tendency to break down. > Hey! Maybe your logic process isn’t so screwed up after all! ;-)
Since you have cleverly guessed that I drive a BMW, you would expect me to take offence at your eloquent story of the bimmer in trouble. Well, I’d rather have my car die on me, then kill me. I don’t think my M5 is a highly overpriced piece of euro garbage, for the safety, performance and quality provided. Sadly enough, I can’t say the same about the Miata.
Well look on the bright side, you’ve always got resale value
In article <33l7hf$…@ds8.scri.fsu.edu> j…@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr) writes: >In article <33ktr1$…@b30news.b30.ingr.com> >pamue…@ingr.com (Phillip Mueller [that's two 'l's!]) writes:
>>Condemner Reports flamed the Miata. They described it as having a "rough, >>sports car ride." Well, duh!!
>>Phil "might consider Miata if it had a ‘rough, sports car engine’" Mueller
>Well, for the cost of a beemer or that Mercedes sports car/sedan, you >can buy a Miata and have a company in California drop a 5 L ford V8 >into it. With flowmasters, that should be just what you are looking for.
Yeah, but won’t that ruin the car’s balance? Not to mention warranty?
– Phillip Mueller (that’s two ‘l’s!) pamue…@ingr.com
: As an aside, I’ve heard that many drivers of Porsche 356s and : 911/912s refused to return the flashes of 914 drivers when : the latter car first came out. Apparently Porsche owners : were among the last hold-outs of the custom, until their : cars became so commonplace.
This is true, but the 914′s were "blackballed" because 356 and 911/912 drivers didn’t consider them "real" Porsches — they used a VW engine, and (reportedly) were sold as VW’s in Europe. The flashing custom persisted for many years after the 914′s introduction — until Porsches became a yuppy-scum trademark.
In article <9408270730.A635…@dynamite.com>, ryan.ra…@dynamite.com writes: > In > European cars, and many American cars, large knee bolsters are present to > prevent cracking one’s kneecaps in the event of a frontal collision. Not only > were this not present in the Miata, but the driver’s left knee cap was subject > to the sharp intrusion of the headlight control unit.
Knee bolsters are intended to prevent the driver and/or passenger from sub- marining (being forced into the footwells, however remote that possibility may be in a Miata) in the event of a frontal impact. Is the turn signal stalk (which houses the headlamp switch) THAT low?
stewart
–
******************************************************************************* * S. G. McKeever * mckee…@stono.cofc.edu * mckeev…@cofc.edu * ******************************************************************************* * "I don’t want to be first in line to see the missing head!" -TMBG * *******************************************************************************
In a previous article, pamue…@ingr.com (Phillip Mueller [that's two 'l's!]) says:
>In article <33l7hf$…@ds8.scri.fsu.edu> j…@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr) writes: >>Well, for the cost of a beemer or that Mercedes sports car/sedan, you >>can buy a Miata and have a company in California drop a 5 L ford V8 >>into it. With flowmasters, that should be just what you are looking for.
>Yeah, but won’t that ruin the car’s balance? Not to mention warranty?
Ford Windsor engines are very small (about 20x20x20 inches, minus intake) and light (the block weighs only about 150 pounds). The warranty would definitely be nulled, but the balance works out to 52 front/48 rear. Not that it matters, with enough traction it would change that to 0 front/100 rear with no difficulty….
- Pete (Now, with twin turbos and 600+ HP and 700+ lb/ft of torque…)
–
If at first you do succeed, you didn’t try something hard enough.
In article <9408270730.A635…@dynamite.com> ryan.ra…@dynamite.com writes: >[flames about alleged lack of passive safety deleted for reasons > of nausea control]
>Since you have cleverly guessed that I drive a BMW
As a fellow beemer owner, I had to jump in here. Not all of us are paternalitic twits. It’s your life, take what chances you want. It’s none of our business.
Phil "waiting eagerly for Ryan and compatriots to legislate all the fun out of life" Mueller
– Phillip Mueller (that’s two ‘l’s!) pamue…@ingr.com
ryan.ra…@dynamite.com writes: > I wish I had seen this accident that you are talking about, but the fact > remains that I have not. I was not the original poster that witnessed this > accident. Maybe your so-far delightful experience with a Miata has begun to > cloud your logic, but the fact remains that this death bento-box does not take > passive safety into much consideration. Mazda built the Miata tiny and light, > one would expect a responsible manufacturer to beef up the structure of such a > small car,
You failed to research what another poster has already told you. While the skin of the Miata certainly is lightweight, the frame structure is not. Actually, the Miata has a good rating in collisions because of this.
> Anybody who is approximately 6 feet tall has part of his head sticking above > the windshield. Do you see any German, hell American convertible makers who > have such low windshield pillars?
I am 6’1", and I don’t experience what you say. I have the seat all of the way back and reclined; this may have something to do with it. And surprisingly enough, with the top up, I can wear a ball cap without it even coming close to touching the top. True with either the soft top up or the hard top installed.
> For a car to be allowed in the United States, it obviously has to pass a > certain set of crash tests. Many Japanese manufacturers design their cars to > excel in the 35 MPH full frontal impact crash barrier test. They are, however, > disasterous in real world situations like an off-set impact. There are certain > loopholes to be aware off: The crash test mandates that the driver seat rail > be set to the middle position. Damage to the driver’s head is tallied by a > points system where 1000 points is deemed fatal. If a car were to fail this > test, instead of spending more money to redesign the car’s structure, the > manufacturer would simply have to extend the seat rails further back, to ensure > the seat-belt has more stretching distance to be effective.
Your focus on these types of safety issues, while lauditory, sounds suspiciously like its becoming an obsession. Are there any vehicles you can buy that are completely safe? I doubt it. I daresay that, under certain accident conditions, even your beloved BMW can become a death trap, as can any vehicle. You might wish to consider giving up riding the roads altogether, and change your lifestyle accordingly. That way, you’ll be completely safe 100% of the time.
> Since you have cleverly guessed that I drive a BMW, you would expect me to take > offence at your eloquent story of the bimmer in trouble.
No such expectation. I was simply applying your (or the original posters’) logic to a situation I had actually observed.
Well, I’d rather have
> my car die on me, then kill me.
That’s true. If your BMW is sitting in the shop all the time getting expensive tune ups and repairs, it’s not going to put you in harm’s way on the road!
I don’t think my M5 is a highly overpriced
> piece of euro garbage, for the safety, performance and quality provided. Sadly > enough, I can’t say the same about the Miata.
I can’t say that the price for the M5 is good based on your considerations for the same reason that you are inaccurate in your statements about the Miata .. I haven’t done the requisite research to find out. The difference between you and I is that I will admit to this ignorance and you will not.
> Well look on the bright side, you’ve always got resale value
You bet! Hopefully it will maintain its value until I can trade it in on the next one! :-)
In article <1994Aug28.19212…@ashley.cofc.edu>, mckeev…@ashley.cofc.edu (STEWART G. MCKEEVER) writes:
> Is the turn signal > stalk (which houses the headlamp switch) THAT low?
Yes, I am only 5′ 11". But the ignition key is right on top of my knee. In Miata and Civic. It comes with the lower center of gravity for better handling that reduces the total hight of the car.
Japanese car maker are generous in giving space sideway. But they get tight on vertical. American is reverse: lots of headroom but aways stick your arm with other passengers.
While on the thread of auto safety, George Will (a Cubs Fan!) wrote in NEWSWEEK (9-5-94): "Twenty years ago economist Sam Peltzmann noticed a ‘feedback effect’ from enhanced auto safety. Drivers wearing seat belts suffered fewer injuries than drivers who did not, but inflicted more. The safer the drivers felt, the more recklessly they drove…."
I agree. About five years ago, I counted three cars in the ditch while inching home in a snowstorm. One was a Firebird, which was understandable because of its fat tires, but the other two were Mercedes. I suppose the drivers thought ABS brakes, which were relatively new then, would allow them to drive at normal speeds in the snow. Live and learn.
laurent.kar…@dynamite.com writes:
>it’s Kph…..(kilometer per hour)
No, it’s ***NOT***!!! (for several reasons…)
First of all, the prefix "kilo" (thousand) has a small ‘k’.
Second of all, a "meter" is a device. a "metre" is a unit of distance.
Thirdly, the proper abbreviaton is "km/h". " "kph" is strictly a US
mislabelling, basically as a carry over from ‘mph.’
So, the proper phrase is:
km/h = kilometres per hour.
Colin
————————————————————————-
********************** Protein Engineering Network of
* Colin Bigam * Centres of Excellence
* .sig stolen from *
* MISSION CONTROL *
********************** c…@procyon.biochem.ualberta.ca
————————————————————————-
> }I have seen many accidants in my life…but that one…never seen a
> car broken
> }up like that in my life…apparantly a guy who was doing about 50
> to 70 kmh
> }lost control of the car (in a Miata) and crashed into a
> house…they driver
> }died…You Guys should see how that piece of crap was crashed on
> the front….
> }How can they sell a car like that in the Market..
>
> There’s a major difference between 50kph and 70kph– which was it?
>
>
> —
> Matthew T. Russotto russo…@eng.umd.edu
There is no major difference between 50 km/h and 70 km/h in a Miata. Either
way, you hit anything and you’re sushi. I am surprised the general public
flocked to such crappy sardine cans as the Miata, when safety is becoming such
a huge issue with the consumer. The Miatas aren’t designed right in the first
place. The least MAZDA corp, could do would be to add a roll bar behind the
rear seat. This modification can be made, and I’ve seen several miatas with
this added level of safety. The manufacturer couldn’t care less, as it would
cost them a couple of dollars extra. Yeah, shave a bit of the metal as well.
The thinner it is, the lighter…and you know, the lighter, the faster…and
the more gas economical, and the better rating we get from Consumer Reports.
A friend of mine was at his Mazda dealer, and a salesperson was trying to push
him into a special edition Miata. He told the salesperson, "But if I crash
this car, I’ll die."
The salesperson said, "But you’ll look good dead."
Till the Japanese stop producing unsafe cars well into the 90′s, I shall not
purchase a Japanese automobile. I feel that they’re more interested in making
a fast buck, rather than caring about the consumer’s well-being. They haven’t
been doing too well environmentally either.
Right now I drive a newer model German car. These cars are a model of
recyclability, safety, durability and clear thinking.
> You need a lot more information before you write off the Miata as a
> "tin can piece of crap". For instance, most everyone would agree
> that
> a small, lightweight vehicle fares less well in an accident
> situation
> than does a larger, heavier vehicle .. ALL OTHER VARIABLES BEING
> EQUAL.
The point becomes moot, as soon as we cut the statistic or scientific data that
is not available. The Miata has no realistic roll-over protection. The metal
used on the Miata is far less rigid than it could be. For a small car such as
the miata, a satisfactory level of rigidity would be like the VW GOLF III’s.
> comparable to the Miata, fare in that same accident situation? If
> you
> have data which says that the Miata breaks up more readily in an
> accident than do other comparatively sized cars under similar
> accident
> conditions, I’d sure be interested in looking at it. But if that is
> indeed the case, how do you explain the fact that, in general, the
> insurance rates are relatively low for the Miata .. especially
> considering the fact that it’s a sports car? Wouldn’t insurance
> companies demand high rates on a vehicle if statistics showed that
> vehicle to have a propensity to fall apart in accident situations?
The insurance companies do not get these statistics, as these studies don’t
exist.
I’m not sure how insurance companies in the U.S work, but I would imagine that
they would set rates based on whether the particular model is expensive to
repair.
> if the Miata is so poorly constructed, why does it receive auto
> magazine accolades, year after year, as one of the best cars you can
> buy for the money? Do I own one? You bet! Would I trade it for
> anything in its price range? Never happen.
Hmm..let’s see. If I recall correctly, auto magazine reviewers are heavily
bribed and influenced by car manufacturers.
> certainly the Miata is a lightly constructed car compared to some,
> but nobody would expect it to fare as well as a larger car in a
> crash situation. reports i’ve heard have suggested that they do
> reasonably well in crashes. basically, you pays your money and
> you takes your chances. if safety is an overriding concern, buy
> something else (certainly not a convertible!).
Why not a convertible? The BMW 3 series convertibles have roll-over protection
that are as good as the car in sedan form. The VW Cabriolet, has a roll bar
that can support much more than it’s own weight. Those convertibles are as
safe or safer than the average car on the road wouldn’t you say?
In article <cgb.777612602@bellatrix>
c…@bellatrix.biochem.ualberta.ca (Colin Bigam) writes:
in a nit picking mood …
>laurent.kar…@dynamite.com writes:
>>it’s Kph…..(kilometer per hour)
>No, it’s ***NOT***!!! (for several reasons…)
>First of all, the prefix "kilo" (thousand) has a small ‘k’.
I assume the K was for emphasis, since it was properly lower case
in the parenthetical explanation, but otherwise correct.
>Second of all, a "meter" is a device. a "metre" is a unit of distance.
Only in places that have an anglophilic tendency. Journals of the other
persuasion will use their computers to correct such tendencies. But if you
are arguing for logic, why is centre used for both a geometric feature
and a large building?
>Thirdly, the proper abbreviaton is "km/h". " "kph" is strictly a US
>mislabelling, basically as a carry over from ‘mph.’
But km/h is technically wrong, since 1000 m/3600 s = 0.27 m/s. Because
there is no advantage gained in the scale of the numbers (km/h and m/s
are of the same order of magnitude), an SI-retentive metric country
should use m/s instead of km/h. This would even have a safety feature,
reminding people how fast they are really going.
So, since even using km/h is a carryover from using mph, writing kph would
be fine. However, after all that nit picking, it is worth noting that
the original poster is simply wrong: km/h is used in the U.S. I have seen
it on highway signs. My guess is that it is done to reduce the chance
that one of our poorly trained drivers with bad vision might confuse kph
with mph. "But officer, the sign said 95!" "It said Interstate 95."
–
James A. Carr <j…@scri.fsu.edu> | Raw data, like raw sewage,
http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac | requires some processing before
Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | it can be spread around. The
Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 | opposite is true of theories.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
In article <9408230307.A545…@dynamite.com>, <ryan.ra…@dynamite.com> wrote:
}
}
} > }I have seen many accidants in my life…but that one…never seen a
} > car broken
} > }up like that in my life…apparantly a guy who was doing about 50
} > to 70 kmh
} > }lost control of the car (in a Miata) and crashed into a
} > house…they driver
} > }died…You Guys should see how that piece of crap was crashed on
} > the front….
} > }How can they sell a car like that in the Market..
} >
} > There’s a major difference between 50kph and 70kph– which was it?
}
}There is no major difference between 50 km/h and 70 km/h in a Miata. Either
}way, you hit anything and you’re sushi.
I’m sorry, I though I was dealing with a reasonably intelligent but
somewhat emotional person. Instead, I see that I’m dealing with a
moronic flamer who ought to be run over by a Miata doing the 2kph
difference between those two speeds. It just so happens that the
Miata I drive was once crashed into a guardrail at 35-40mph. The
driver received a concussion, a broken hand, and some abrasions from
the airbag, but was not "sushi".
}I am surprised the general public
}flocked to such crappy sardine cans as the Miata, when safety is becoming such
}a huge issue with the consumer. The Miatas aren’t designed right in the first
}place. The least MAZDA corp, could do would be to add a roll bar behind the
}rear seat. This modification can be made, and I’ve seen several miatas with
}this added level of safety.
Probably by people who race them. The current Miatas have a bar to
stiffen the chassis there, but no roll bar. A roll bar would, of
course, make no difference in a head-on collision. The Miata does not
crush flat when rolled, BTW– the A-pillars and the top of the
windshield frame remain intact. The local salespeople showed pictures
when they were asked about rollovers in a Miata.
}The manufacturer couldn’t care less, as it would
}cost them a couple of dollars extra. Yeah, shave a bit of the metal as well.
}The thinner it is, the lighter…and you know, the lighter, the faster…and
}the more gas economical, and the better rating we get from Consumer Reports.
Check the weight and economy of the Lexus LS400– CRs top rated car.
I doubt Mazda was aiming for the person who buys cars solely on
Consumer Reports recommendations– that’s what the 323 and Protege
were for.
}A friend of mine was at his Mazda dealer, and a salesperson was trying to push
}him into a special edition Miata. He told the salesperson, "But if I crash
}this car, I’ll die."
}The salesperson said, "But you’ll look good dead."
Hell, after dealing with any friend of yours for any length of time,
I’d figure he’d be better off dead too.
}Till the Japanese stop producing unsafe cars well into the 90′s, I shall not
}purchase a Japanese automobile. I feel that they’re more interested in making
}a fast buck, rather than caring about the consumer’s well-being. They haven’t
}been doing too well environmentally either.
All the car companies are only interested in the consumer’s
well-being inasmuch as it helps them make a buck.
}Right now I drive a newer model German car. These cars are a model of
}recyclability, safety, durability and clear thinking.
And high price. And none of them makes anything like the Miata.
–
Matthew T. Russotto russo…@eng.umd.edu
Some news readers expect "Disclaimer:" here.
Just say NO to police searches and seizures. Make them use force.
(not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice)
In article <9408240140.A585…@dynamite.com> ryan.ra…@dynamite.com writes:
>The point becomes moot, as soon as we cut the statistic or scientific data that
>is not available.
Given the many thousands of Miata on the road (driven by happy owners
who smile and wave at the drivers of other Miatas — ever see Taurus or
BMW owners do that?) and the many that are drive in competition, there
are plenty of statistics available on the car under both normal and
rather extreme conditions.
> The Miata has no realistic roll-over protection.
This is true. A roll bar is required for Solo I competition. However,
with its rigid frame, wide track, and low cg, one has to work at trying
to roll it. In contrast, if you have ever seen a VW running autocross
on 2-3 wheels, you know why they build a roll bar into the Cabrio. It
scares the hell out of me watching those things in a slalom. A Miata
needs to hit something to roll, not true of some others on the road.
Worst non-fatal I ever saw was a jeep (or equivalent) filled with
students that flipped in a chicane on campus, pinning several under
the roll cage. Unsafe in any S curve because of suspension rebound roll.
>used on the Miata is far less rigid than it could be. For a small car such as
>the miata, a satisfactory level of rigidity would be like the VW GOLF III’s.
The sheet metal on the Miata is soft and light. The frame is not, mainly
because of the extra frame that integrates the drive train into a single
unit. One thing that surprised me about the Miata was that it is almost
as heavy as the Accord hatchback it replaced. That and the fact that
it is about the same length as a Tercel 2-door that parked next to
me one day. My hood is longer, which helps in a crash.
The main weak point is, like other convertibles, body flex. The ’94
has a cross brace behind the driver to reduce this and add extra
protection from side impact. That, and other sources of added weight
along with new emissions controls, is why the ’94 needed a bigger engine.
>The insurance companies do not get these statistics, as these studies don’t
>exist.
>I’m not sure how insurance companies in the U.S work, but I would imagine that
>they would set rates based on whether the particular model is expensive to
>repair.
Well, if you are not sure, don’t talk. They set rates based on claims
experience in it or, for a new model, similar cars. The index numbers
determined by the industry as a whole were included in the reference
material I looked over at the CU, but I asked my agent about them as
well since I could not believe they could be the same as a sedan. Our
Miata and our Subaru Legacy are almost identical in claims risk to
the company. Comprehensive is low because the car is seldom stolen
(unlike those late 80s GM cars that still lead the list), and the
collision and PIP rates reflect accident rate and cost of repair to
the car and its passengers. Now in its fifth year, the insurance
industry has lots of experience with the Miata and they like it.
Other cars in its class have insurance rates that can be twice as high,
or more, and do not cost twice as much. In fact, given the very slow
depreciation of a Miata compared to those others, which start costing
more and end up cheaper when used, you would expect the opposite to be
true since insurance reflects the present value of the car.
–
James A. Carr <j…@scri.fsu.edu> | Raw data, like raw sewage,
http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac | requires some processing before
Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | it can be spread around. The
Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 | opposite is true of theories.
In article <9408230307.A545…@dynamite.com> ryan.ra…@dynamite.com writes:
>There is no major difference between 50 km/h and 70 km/h in a Miata. Either
>way, you hit anything and you’re sushi. I am surprised the general public
There is twice the energy to be dissipated at 70 as at 50. Most accidents
at 50 km/h (30 mph) are survivable in any car sold in the US, although I have
seen exceptions. The person killed in a Chrysler New Yorker by a 6-wheel
pickup, for example, that would have been killed in any car.
Clearly you are as ignorant of the physics of automobile collisions as
you are of the Miata if you think the energy of the car or the nature
of the thing you hit has no effect on survivability.
>The thinner it is, the lighter…and you know, the lighter, the faster…and
>the more gas economical, and the better rating we get from Consumer Reports.
People who drive the Miata don’t give a damn about Consumer Reports. In
fact, CR does not much care for the Miata. They like cars with cupholders
and a big trunk, and there are sedans with better mileage than a Miata.
Shows how much you know — you probably don’t even know that it was
designed by an American who went to Mazda when others turned him down.
>A friend of mine was at his Mazda dealer, and a salesperson was trying to push
>him into a special edition Miata. He told the salesperson, "But if I crash
>this car, I’ll die."
>The salesperson said, "But you’ll look good dead."
Only in the red model. ;-)
There are a lot of cars around where you will die if you crash it.
>Right now I drive a newer model German car. These cars are a model of
>recyclability, safety, durability and clear thinking.
Darn, I thought you drove a nice safe car like a Pinto.
But if you think that just because you spent a lot of money for your
car that it is *safe*, you had better think again. There are no
safe cars, only safe drivers.
–
James A. Carr <j…@scri.fsu.edu> | Raw data, like raw sewage,
http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac | requires some processing before
Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | it can be spread around. The
Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 | opposite is true of theories.
The original poster of this thread [attribution lost] said:
> > }
> > }lost control of the car (in a Miata) and crashed into a
> > house…they driver
> > }died…You Guys should see how that piece of crap was crashed on
> > the front….
> > }How can they sell a car like that in the Market..
Because some people like to drive them. How’s it any business of yours?
In article <9408230307.A545…@dynamite.com> ryan.ra…@dynamite.com writes:
>…
>The thinner it is, the lighter…and you know, the lighter, the faster…and
>the more gas economical, and the better rating we get from Consumer Reports.
Condemner Reports flamed the Miata. They described it as having a "rough,
sports car ride." Well, duh!!
Phil "might consider Miata if it had a ‘rough, sports car engine’" Mueller
–
Phillip Mueller (that’s two ‘l’s!) pamue…@ingr.com
> who smile and wave at the drivers of other Miatas — ever see Taurus
> or
> BMW owners do that?) and the many that are drive in competition,
As a matter of fact, it is a tradition for BMW owners to flash their lights at
other BMWs. It started with 2002 drivers.
Miata drivers are just wannabes I guess
In article <9408260239.A627…@dynamite.com>
ryan.ra…@dynamite.com writes:
> > who smile and wave at the drivers of other Miatas — ever see Taurus
> > or
> > BMW owners do that?) and the many that are drive in competition,
> As a matter of fact, it is a tradition for BMW owners to flash their lights at
> other BMWs. It started with 2002 drivers.
> Miata drivers are just wannabes I guess
Well, by gosh, I guess you’ve got all of us! Your analytical,
unbiased, and verifyable responses to my points, and others in this
string, have convinced me that your logic process is indeed one to
emulate!
Let’s see .. in your original post, you said that you had seen a Miata
which had been involved in a fatal accident, and concluded, by this one
observation, that the Miata was a tin can piece of crap. I’ll attempt
to apply this logic process to an incident I actually witnessed on the
way into work yesterday morning. I observed a late model BMW along the
side of the road, with its hood raised and the driver talking on a
cellular phone, apparently seeking roadside assistance. My conclusion,
based on this observation, is that the BMW is a highly overpriced piece
of euro-garbage which should not be allowed on american roads because
it has a chronic tendency to break down.
Hey! Maybe your logic process isn’t so screwed up after all! ;-)
In article <33ktr1$…@b30news.b30.ingr.com>
pamue…@ingr.com (Phillip Mueller [that's two 'l's!]) writes:
>Condemner Reports flamed the Miata. They described it as having a "rough,
>sports car ride." Well, duh!!
>Phil "might consider Miata if it had a ‘rough, sports car engine’" Mueller
Well, for the cost of a beemer or that Mercedes sports car/sedan, you
can buy a Miata and have a company in California drop a 5 L ford V8
into it. With flowmasters, that should be just what you are looking for.
if it had a pair of wings …
–
James A. Carr <j…@scri.fsu.edu> | Raw data, like raw sewage,
http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac | requires some processing before
Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | it can be spread around. The
Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 | opposite is true of theories.
In a previous article, ryan.ra…@dynamite.com (Geoff Miller) says:
>I’m not sure how insurance companies in the U.S work, but I would imagine that
>they would set rates based on whether the particular model is expensive to
>repair.
Nah, in the US, your insurance pays for their damages.
Saw this last week om the Interstate: Tercel vs. Olds 88. Tercel looked
like it’d been through a coffee grinder. Olds 88 had a broken windshield
and a dented bumper.
Gotta love those big cars… hose off the dash and sell it to the next guy.
–
If at first you do succeed, you didn’t try something hard enough.
In a previous article, ryan.ra…@dynamite.com (Jim Carr) says:
> > who smile and wave at the drivers of other Miatas — ever see Taurus
> > or
> > BMW owners do that?) and the many that are drive in competition,
>As a matter of fact, it is a tradition for BMW owners to flash their lights at
>other BMWs. It started with 2002 drivers.
>Miata drivers are just wannabes I guess
Started with the good ol’ Beetle. Beemer owners are wannabes, I guess.
—
If at first you do succeed, you didn’t try something hard enough.
In article <9408260239.A627…@dynamite.com> ryan.ra…@dynamite.com writes:
> As a matter of fact, it is a tradition for BMW owners to flash
> their lights at other BMWs. It started with 2002 drivers.
>Miata drivers are just wannabes I guess
This custom goes back a lot further than the heyday of the 2002.
In the United States, it used to be common among sports car
aficionados in the Fifties, I understand.
As an aside, I’ve heard that many drivers of Porsche 356s and
911/912s refused to return the flashes of 914 drivers when
the latter car first came out. Apparently Porsche owners
were among the last hold-outs of the custom, until their
cars became so commonplace.
Geoff
–
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Geoff Miller + + + + + + + + Mountain View
geo…@netcom.com + DoD #0996 + California
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> Well, by gosh, I guess you’ve got all of us! Your analytical,
> unbiased, and verifyable responses to my points, and others in this
> string, have convinced me that your logic process is indeed one to
> emulate!
A compliment? Yes, thank you.
> Let’s see .. in your original post, you said that you had seen a
> Miata
> which had been involved in a fatal accident, and concluded, by this
> one
> observation, that the Miata was a tin can piece of crap. I’ll
I wish I had seen this accident that you are talking about, but the fact
remains that I have not. I was not the original poster that witnessed this
accident. Maybe your so-far delightful experience with a Miata has begun to
cloud your logic, but the fact remains that this death bento-box does not take
passive safety into much consideration. Mazda built the Miata tiny and light,
one would expect a responsible manufacturer to beef up the structure of such a
small car, to ensure that it would be able to withstand real-world crash
situations like other cars. Instead, the metal used is comparable, to the
subject line of this thread.
At the Mazda dealer the other day, the first thing I noticed while sitting in a
special edition Miata was the disregard for driver and passenger safety. In
European cars, and many American cars, large knee bolsters are present to
prevent cracking one’s kneecaps in the event of a frontal collision. Not only
were this not present in the Miata, but the driver’s left knee cap was subject
to the sharp intrusion of the headlight control unit.
Anybody who is approximately 6 feet tall has part of his head sticking above
the windshield. Do you see any German, hell American convertible makers who
have such low windshield pillars?
For a car to be allowed in the United States, it obviously has to pass a
certain set of crash tests. Many Japanese manufacturers design their cars to
excel in the 35 MPH full frontal impact crash barrier test. They are, however,
disasterous in real world situations like an off-set impact. There are certain
loopholes to be aware off: The crash test mandates that the driver seat rail
be set to the middle position. Damage to the driver’s head is tallied by a
points system where 1000 points is deemed fatal. If a car were to fail this
test, instead of spending more money to redesign the car’s structure, the
manufacturer would simply have to extend the seat rails further back, to ensure
the seat-belt has more stretching distance to be effective.
> to apply this logic process to an incident I actually witnessed on
> the
> way into work yesterday morning. I observed a late model BMW along
> the
> side of the road, with its hood raised and the driver talking on a
> cellular phone, apparently seeking roadside assistance. My
> conclusion,
> based on this observation, is that the BMW is a highly overpriced
> piece
> of euro-garbage which should not be allowed on american roads
> because
> it has a chronic tendency to break down.
> Hey! Maybe your logic process isn’t so screwed up after all! ;-)
Since you have cleverly guessed that I drive a BMW, you would expect me to take
offence at your eloquent story of the bimmer in trouble. Well, I’d rather have
my car die on me, then kill me. I don’t think my M5 is a highly overpriced
piece of euro garbage, for the safety, performance and quality provided. Sadly
enough, I can’t say the same about the Miata.
Well look on the bright side, you’ve always got resale value
In article <33l7hf$…@ds8.scri.fsu.edu> j…@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr) writes:
>In article <33ktr1$…@b30news.b30.ingr.com>
>pamue…@ingr.com (Phillip Mueller [that's two 'l's!]) writes:
>>Condemner Reports flamed the Miata. They described it as having a "rough,
>>sports car ride." Well, duh!!
>>Phil "might consider Miata if it had a ‘rough, sports car engine’" Mueller
>Well, for the cost of a beemer or that Mercedes sports car/sedan, you
>can buy a Miata and have a company in California drop a 5 L ford V8
>into it. With flowmasters, that should be just what you are looking for.
Yeah, but won’t that ruin the car’s balance? Not to mention warranty?
–
Phillip Mueller (that’s two ‘l’s!) pamue…@ingr.com
Geoff Miller (geo…@netcom.com) wrote:
: As an aside, I’ve heard that many drivers of Porsche 356s and
: 911/912s refused to return the flashes of 914 drivers when
: the latter car first came out. Apparently Porsche owners
: were among the last hold-outs of the custom, until their
: cars became so commonplace.
This is true, but the 914′s were "blackballed" because 356 and
911/912 drivers didn’t consider them "real" Porsches — they
used a VW engine, and (reportedly) were sold as VW’s in Europe.
The flashing custom persisted for many years after the 914′s
introduction — until Porsches became a yuppy-scum trademark.
regards,
Mark
In article <9408270730.A635…@dynamite.com>, ryan.ra…@dynamite.com writes:
> In
> European cars, and many American cars, large knee bolsters are present to
> prevent cracking one’s kneecaps in the event of a frontal collision. Not only
> were this not present in the Miata, but the driver’s left knee cap was subject
> to the sharp intrusion of the headlight control unit.
Knee bolsters are intended to prevent the driver and/or passenger from sub-
marining (being forced into the footwells, however remote that possibility
may be in a Miata) in the event of a frontal impact. Is the turn signal
stalk (which houses the headlamp switch) THAT low?
stewart
–
*******************************************************************************
* S. G. McKeever * mckee…@stono.cofc.edu * mckeev…@cofc.edu *
*******************************************************************************
* "I don’t want to be first in line to see the missing head!" -TMBG *
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In a previous article, pamue…@ingr.com (Phillip Mueller [that's two 'l's!]) says:
>In article <33l7hf$…@ds8.scri.fsu.edu> j…@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr) writes:
>>Well, for the cost of a beemer or that Mercedes sports car/sedan, you
>>can buy a Miata and have a company in California drop a 5 L ford V8
>>into it. With flowmasters, that should be just what you are looking for.
>Yeah, but won’t that ruin the car’s balance? Not to mention warranty?
Ford Windsor engines are very small (about 20x20x20 inches, minus intake)
and light (the block weighs only about 150 pounds). The warranty would
definitely be nulled, but the balance works out to 52 front/48 rear.
Not that it matters, with enough traction it would change that to
0 front/100 rear with no difficulty….
- Pete (Now, with twin turbos and 600+ HP and 700+ lb/ft of torque…)
–
If at first you do succeed, you didn’t try something hard enough.
In article <9408270730.A635…@dynamite.com> ryan.ra…@dynamite.com writes:
>[flames about alleged lack of passive safety deleted for reasons
> of nausea control]
>Since you have cleverly guessed that I drive a BMW
As a fellow beemer owner, I had to jump in here. Not all of us are
paternalitic twits. It’s your life, take what chances you want. It’s
none of our business.
Phil "waiting eagerly for Ryan and compatriots to legislate all the
fun out of life" Mueller
–
Phillip Mueller (that’s two ‘l’s!) pamue…@ingr.com
In article <9408270730.A635…@dynamite.com>
ryan.ra…@dynamite.com writes:
> I wish I had seen this accident that you are talking about, but the fact
> remains that I have not. I was not the original poster that witnessed this
> accident. Maybe your so-far delightful experience with a Miata has begun to
> cloud your logic, but the fact remains that this death bento-box does not take
> passive safety into much consideration. Mazda built the Miata tiny and light,
> one would expect a responsible manufacturer to beef up the structure of such a
> small car,
You failed to research what another poster has already told you. While
the skin of the Miata certainly is lightweight, the frame structure is
not. Actually, the Miata has a good rating in collisions because of
this.
> Anybody who is approximately 6 feet tall has part of his head sticking above
> the windshield. Do you see any German, hell American convertible makers who
> have such low windshield pillars?
I am 6’1", and I don’t experience what you say. I have the seat all of
the way back and reclined; this may have something to do with it. And
surprisingly enough, with the top up, I can wear a ball cap without it
even coming close to touching the top. True with either the soft top
up or the hard top installed.
> For a car to be allowed in the United States, it obviously has to pass a
> certain set of crash tests. Many Japanese manufacturers design their cars to
> excel in the 35 MPH full frontal impact crash barrier test. They are, however,
> disasterous in real world situations like an off-set impact. There are certain
> loopholes to be aware off: The crash test mandates that the driver seat rail
> be set to the middle position. Damage to the driver’s head is tallied by a
> points system where 1000 points is deemed fatal. If a car were to fail this
> test, instead of spending more money to redesign the car’s structure, the
> manufacturer would simply have to extend the seat rails further back, to ensure
> the seat-belt has more stretching distance to be effective.
Your focus on these types of safety issues, while lauditory, sounds
suspiciously like its becoming an obsession. Are there any vehicles
you can buy that are completely safe? I doubt it. I daresay that,
under certain accident conditions, even your beloved BMW can become a
death trap, as can any vehicle. You might wish to consider giving up
riding the roads altogether, and change your lifestyle accordingly.
That way, you’ll be completely safe 100% of the time.
> Since you have cleverly guessed that I drive a BMW, you would expect me to take
> offence at your eloquent story of the bimmer in trouble.
No such expectation. I was simply applying your (or the original
posters’) logic to a situation I had actually observed.
Well, I’d rather have
> my car die on me, then kill me.
That’s true. If your BMW is sitting in the shop all the time getting
expensive tune ups and repairs, it’s not going to put you in harm’s way
on the road!
I don’t think my M5 is a highly overpriced
> piece of euro garbage, for the safety, performance and quality provided. Sadly
> enough, I can’t say the same about the Miata.
I can’t say that the price for the M5 is good based on your
considerations for the same reason that you are inaccurate in your
statements about the Miata .. I haven’t done the requisite research to
find out. The difference between you and I is that I will admit to
this ignorance and you will not.
> Well look on the bright side, you’ve always got resale value
You bet! Hopefully it will maintain its value until I can trade it in
on the next one! :-)
In article <1994Aug28.19212…@ashley.cofc.edu>, mckeev…@ashley.cofc.edu (STEWART G. MCKEEVER) writes:
> Is the turn signal
> stalk (which houses the headlamp switch) THAT low?
Yes, I am only 5′ 11". But the ignition key is right on top of my knee.
In Miata and Civic. It comes with the lower center of gravity for
better handling that reduces the total hight of the car.
Japanese car maker are generous in giving space sideway. But they
get tight on vertical. American is reverse: lots of headroom but
aways stick your arm with other passengers.
While on the thread of auto safety, George Will (a Cubs Fan!)
wrote in NEWSWEEK (9-5-94):
"Twenty years ago economist Sam Peltzmann noticed a ‘feedback effect’
from enhanced auto safety. Drivers wearing seat belts suffered fewer
injuries than drivers who did not, but inflicted more. The safer the
drivers felt, the more recklessly they drove…."
I agree. About five years ago, I counted three cars in the ditch
while inching home in a snowstorm. One was a Firebird, which was
understandable because of its fat tires, but the other two were
Mercedes. I suppose the drivers thought ABS brakes, which were
relatively new then, would allow them to drive at normal speeds in
the snow. Live and learn.