>Richard Ottolini writes:
>>Being both an avid driver and bicyclist I would say driver compliance with
>>laws is much higher than bicyclists, I’d say 90% to 25%, especially for basic
>>things like observing stop signs, staying on the correct side of the road,
>>having night lights on the vehicle. [. . .]
In article <1992Apr6.230032.27…@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> l…@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest) writes:
>Really? For example, 90% of all motorists obey the speed laws on
>freeways? I wonder where Mr. Ottolini gathers these amazing statistics.
No Les, he said BASIC stuff….disobedience of asinine speed
laws is a civic DUTY, not a violation of law.
Going from the ability and willingness to stay on the correct
side of the road, stopping at stop signs, etc. to speed laws
is a pretty big stretch.
Besides, one would bet that the obedience is more due to
visibility. Biker’s CAN’T speed…and cars are a bit more
conspicuous cruising down the wrong side of the road.
In article <180…@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstow…@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>…
> Besides, one would bet that the obedience is more due to
> visibility. Biker’s CAN’T speed…and cars are a bit more
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> conspicuous cruising down the wrong side of the road.
Welcome to reality. Bikers CAN speed, all it takes is a hill. A friend
of mine got a speeding ticket on a bike, he also ran a stop sign, but
that was because he was speeding (yes, it was stupid and dangerous).
At the time he was a minor, so off to court he went. The judge suspended
his DRIVER’S license for 2 months. My friend objected since he was not
driving a car at the time, so the judge changed it to 1 month. I don’t
think the judge wanted to admit that it was not known that all of
this happened on a bike.
—
Kemasa.
The best defense is insanity.
Sierra Club Leader NRA Life Member Pro-freedom
e-mail address: kem…@ipld01.hac.com
In article <180…@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstow…@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>>Richard Ottolini writes:
>>>Being both an avid driver and bicyclist I would say driver compliance with
>>>laws is much higher than bicyclists, I’d say 90% to 25%, especially for basic
>>>things like observing stop signs, staying on the correct side of the road,
>>>having night lights on the vehicle. [. . .]
>In article <1992Apr6.230032.27…@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> l…@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest) writes:
>>Really? For example, 90% of all motorists obey the speed laws on
>>freeways? I wonder where Mr. Ottolini gathers these amazing statistics.
> No Les, he said BASIC stuff….disobedience of asinine speed
> laws is a civic DUTY, not a violation of law.
Oh, I see, the question is not whether you violate the law, but which
laws you violate. Uh huh….
> Going from the ability and willingness to stay on the correct
> side of the road, stopping at stop signs, etc. to speed laws
> is a pretty big stretch.
Not that big at all. However, let’s consider what you call "basic
stuff," namely stoping at stop signs. I think that if you observe a
stop sign carefully, you will find that 90% of drivers do not come to
a complete stop when there is no opossing traffic. Consider another
"basic stuff:" signalling turns and yielding the right of way when
making a left hand turn. The compliance here is a little better,
maybe about 50%. On the other hand, these are much more serious
violations, which can easily cause "accidents." Moreover, the police
only encourage this behaviour in motorists by ignoring it.
> Besides, one would bet that the obedience is more due to
> visibility. Biker’s CAN’T speed…and cars are a bit more
> conspicuous cruising down the wrong side of the road.
In other words, drivers obey laws only when it is convienient to do
so, a point which has been made here already. I’m not saying
bicyclists are any better in this regard; but to suggest that 90%
motorists both know and obey common traffic laws is absurd.
John_A…@att.com
In article <180…@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstow…@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
> No Les, he said BASIC stuff….disobedience of asinine speed
> laws is a civic DUTY, not a violation of law.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Give me a break!!!!! Perhaps in Mt View, they have a different idea of
what law is, but I don’t remember the CHP handing out tickets for
violations of civic duties. I also don’t remember the DMV saying its OK
to redefine the concept of law to fit your own narrow-minded
preferences, either.
> Going from the ability and willingness to stay on the correct
> side of the road, stopping at stop signs, etc. to speed laws
> is a pretty big stretch.
Its only a big stretch if you’ve selectively defined laws to fit your
desires.
> Besides, one would bet that the obedience is more due to
> visibility. Biker’s CAN’T speed…and cars are a bit more
Come up to Colorado, and tell me that when I’m going 43 in a 40 mile
zone on my bike. Perhaps bloated cagers who happen to be lucky enough
to get on a bike occasionally can’t speed, but the rest of us sure can!
> conspicuous cruising down the wrong side of the road.
Get a life, man!
John Sims
–
John Sims s…@pogo.den.mmc.com
"Life is much too serious a matter to be taken too seriously"
Goethe (I think)
============================================================================
In article <21…@hacgate.UUCP> kem…@ipld01.hac.com (Kemasa) writes:
>In article <180…@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstow…@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>> visibility. Biker’s CAN’T speed…and cars are a bit more
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Welcome to reality. Bikers CAN speed, all it takes is a hill.
You don’t even need a hill (let alone a good one). All it takes is
a half-decent sprint, and you can easily blow a 40 km/h (25 mph) speed
limit. If you have a good sprint, you should have no problem going
faster than 60 km/h. Around 70 – 75 km/h, pedalling won’t help you
anymore, and _then_ you’ll need a hill to go faster.
–
Scott Nicol, Mortice Kern Systems Inc., Internet: sc…@mks.com
35 King Street North UUCP: uunet!watserv1!mks!scott
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA, N2J 2W9 Phone: (519) 884-2251
In article <1992Apr7.204752.14…@island.COM> d…@island.COM (Don Hermes) writes:
>Driver Compliance to the 55 MPH speed limit on the freeway seems to be
>about 10%, at least around here. Or are we only talking about laws that
>are defined as stupid by the people braking them ?
About the only time I’ve even seen a 10% compliance is when
there is a highway patrol cruising. Seems even more true on the
65 mph rural freeways.
It would appear that most drivers DO think the speed laws are
stupid. Most folks I know tend to obey the laws that make
sense…and ignore the stupid ones.
And in your neighborhood, it would appear that you either have a
90% population of sociopaths or your drivers also think the speed
limits are stupid.
> You don’t even need a hill (let alone a good one). All it takes is
>a half-decent sprint, and you can easily blow a 40 km/h (25 mph) speed
>limit. If you have a good sprint, you should have no problem going
>faster than 60 km/h. Around 70 – 75 km/h, pedalling won’t help you
>anymore, and _then_ you’ll need a hill to go faster.
But boy, a good hill sure helps!! A friend of mine on his mid line ($300ish)
racing bike has surpassed 100km/h (62.5?mph) (measured with the air of one of
those little bike computers). He says you get some pretty strange looks from
people as you go past them (the limit on this hill is 90). ’Course, EVERYONE
speeds on this hill. My girlfriend was riding in a city *bus* that got pulled
over for speeding!
Doug Schaffer, University of Calgary, schaf…@cpsc.ucalgary.ca