Driving automobiles

Re: Brilliant Road Engineering

On Aug 22, 11:15 pm, Scott in SoCal <scottenazt…@yahoo.com> wrote:

- — -

> WTF kind of logic is this? Are these painted stripes going to work
> only on drivers who are exceeding the speed limit? Or are the Sloths
> going to become even slothier?

> http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/197622

> Highway engineers’ tricks fool drivers to cut speed
> The Associated Press
> Tucson, Arizona | Published: 08.22.2007

> LAKE HAVASU CITY – Highway engineers in Mohave County are trying to
> fool drivers into slowing down by using specially designed road
> markings that send subliminal messages to motorists.
> The county has painted a so-called optical speed zone on a two-mile
> stretch of southbound Stockton Hill Road about 20 miles north of
> Kingman. Sets of white markings are painted perpendicular to the
> yellow centerline 150 feet apart for the first five intervals,
> reducing by 10 feet until they are 100 feet apart.
> Drivers see the markings going by faster and faster, subliminally
> convincing them their speed has increased, causing them to either
> brake or take their foot off the accelerator, said Steve Latoski, the
> county’s design engineering manager.
> "The idea is to achieve speed control," Latoski said. "Speed limits
> don’t necessarily do that. Enforcement does that but can only occur
> over a finite period of time. Or there can be physical controls. This
> is a low-cost mechanism for us just to call people’s attention to
> their speed."
> The stretch of highway chosen for the experiment is at the end of a
> long, rural stretch and right before it enters developed areas.
> Although posted at 55 mph, the averages speeds are at least 10 mph
> higher, Latoski said.
> Since the striping was painted on July 11, average daytime speeds have
> decreased by 2 mph, and nighttime speeds dropped by nearly 5 mph.
> "If we can demonstrate consistent, significant decrease, we will
> likely look at other, similar applications in the county," Latoski
> said.

Did you know Supermarkets, supercenters, and department stores use
this technique as well? In more expensive areas, such as near exotic
produce, jewlery, electronics, etc., the tiles are much smaller or
have a different texture? The more clicks the shopping cart makes as
it traverses the tiles, the more likely you are so slow down as you
perceive yourself to be going too fast. Slowing down means that you
browse around more, which generates more sales for the retailer.

I’m curious to see what the results would be for AZDOT.

.
posted by admin in Uncategorized and have Comments (20)

20 Responses to “Re: Brilliant Road Engineering”

  1. admin says:

    In article <mpupc31as7c9kdabrvd13l19t0paefm…@4ax.com>, Scott in SoCal wrote:
    > "The idea is to achieve speed control," Latoski said. "Speed limits
    > don’t necessarily do that. Enforcement does that but can only occur
    > over a finite period of time. Or there can be physical controls. This
    > is a low-cost mechanism for us just to call people’s attention to
    > their speed."

    Maybe if they didn’t use blind 100 year old drivers in broken down 100
    year old cars to make their tables they’d match road design and speed
    limit better.

  2. admin says:

    tetraethylleadREMOVET…@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote:
    >In article <mpupc31as7c9kdabrvd13l19t0paefm…@4ax.com>, Scott in SoCal wrote:

    >> "The idea is to achieve speed control," Latoski said. "Speed limits
    >> don’t necessarily do that. Enforcement does that but can only occur
    >> over a finite period of time. Or there can be physical controls. This
    >> is a low-cost mechanism for us just to call people’s attention to
    >> their speed."

    >Maybe if they didn’t use blind 100 year old drivers in broken down 100
    >year old cars to make their tables they’d match road design and speed
    >limit better.

    Yeah, we ought to design the roads for 22 year old cokeheads driving
    state of the art Mustangs, shouldn’t we?  

    John Lansford, PE

    John’s Shop of Wood
    http://wood.jlansford.net/

  3. admin says:

    On Aug 22, 11:15 pm, Scott in SoCal <scottenazt…@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > WTF kind of logic is this? Are these painted stripes going to work
    > only on drivers who are exceeding the speed limit? Or are the Sloths
    > going to become even slothier?

    > http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/197622

    > Highway engineers’ tricks fool drivers to cut speed
    > Sets of white markings are painted perpendicular to the
    > yellow centerline 150 feet apart for the first five intervals,
    > reducing by 10 feet until they are 100 feet apart.
    > Drivers see the markings going by faster and faster, subliminally
    > convincing them their speed has increased, causing them to either
    > brake or take their foot off the accelerator, said Steve Latoski, the
    > county’s design engineering manager.

    Wouldn’t this tend to make traffic in the opposite direction speed up?

  4. admin says:

    On Aug 23, 8:28 am, Gary V <gjvos…@comcast.net> wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > On Aug 22, 11:15 pm, Scott in SoCal <scottenazt…@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > > WTF kind of logic is this? Are these painted stripes going to work
    > > only on drivers who are exceeding the speed limit? Or are the Sloths
    > > going to become even slothier?

    > >http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/197622

    > > Highway engineers’ tricks fool drivers to cut speed
    > > Sets of white markings are painted perpendicular to the
    > > yellow centerline 150 feet apart for the first five intervals,
    > > reducing by 10 feet until they are 100 feet apart.
    > > Drivers see the markings going by faster and faster, subliminally
    > > convincing them their speed has increased, causing them to either
    > > brake or take their foot off the accelerator, said Steve Latoski, the
    > > county’s design engineering manager.

    > Wouldn’t this tend to make traffic in the opposite direction speed up?

    Didn’t they have similiar ideas in Britian, starting I guess in the
    1960s, with the ‘jagged painted curb-lines’ near pedestrian crossings
    and road intersections – I thought I read (in the famed periodical
    ‘Somewhere’) that in many cases they increased the frequency and the
    size of the line inflections as it got closer to the crosswalk, with
    the same psychological effect as making lines get closer together as
    mentioned in the OP.

  5. admin says:

    On Aug 22, 11:15 pm, Scott in SoCal <scottenazt…@yahoo.com> wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > WTF kind of logic is this? Are these painted stripes going to work
    > only on drivers who are exceeding the speed limit? Or are the Sloths
    > going to become even slothier?

    > http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/197622

    > Highway engineers’ tricks fool drivers to cut speed
    > The Associated Press
    > Tucson, Arizona | Published: 08.22.2007

    > LAKE HAVASU CITY – Highway engineers in Mohave County are trying to
    > fool drivers into slowing down by using specially designed road
    > markings that send subliminal messages to motorists.
    > The county has painted a so-called optical speed zone on a two-mile
    > stretch of southbound Stockton Hill Road about 20 miles north of
    > Kingman. Sets of white markings are painted perpendicular to the
    > yellow centerline 150 feet apart for the first five intervals,
    > reducing by 10 feet until they are 100 feet apart.
    > Drivers see the markings going by faster and faster, subliminally
    > convincing them their speed has increased, causing them to either
    > brake or take their foot off the accelerator, said Steve Latoski, the
    > county’s design engineering manager.
    > "The idea is to achieve speed control," Latoski said. "Speed limits
    > don’t necessarily do that. Enforcement does that but can only occur
    > over a finite period of time. Or there can be physical controls. This
    > is a low-cost mechanism for us just to call people’s attention to
    > their speed."
    > The stretch of highway chosen for the experiment is at the end of a
    > long, rural stretch and right before it enters developed areas.
    > Although posted at 55 mph, the averages speeds are at least 10 mph
    > higher, Latoski said.
    > Since the striping was painted on July 11, average daytime speeds have
    > decreased by 2 mph, and nighttime speeds dropped by nearly 5 mph.
    > "If we can demonstrate consistent, significant decrease, we will
    > likely look at other, similar applications in the county," Latoski
    > said.
    > —
    > "It’s little sh*ts like you that take my time away from my fiancee and
    > loved ones.  F*CK YOU."
    >  - Carl Rogers, 12/30/2006
    > Message-ID: <1167515577.811497.149…@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>

    Wait until some kids decide that it’ll make a cool timewarp, and
    decide to speed up to make the lines appear faster and faster.  When
    they wrap themselves around a tree, or hit someone in the developed
    area, suddenly lawsuits will be flying at what the county will then
    term "a completely stupid idea".

  6. admin says:

    On Aug 23, 4:09 am, John Lansford <jlnsf…@bellsouth.net> wrote:

    > tetraethylleadREMOVET…@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote:
    > >In article <mpupc31as7c9kdabrvd13l19t0paefm…@4ax.com>, Scott in SoCal wrote:

    > >> "The idea is to achieve speed control," Latoski said. "Speed limits
    > >> don’t necessarily do that. Enforcement does that but can only occur
    > >> over a finite period of time. Or there can be physical controls. This
    > >> is a low-cost mechanism for us just to call people’s attention to
    > >> their speed."

    > >Maybe if they didn’t use blind 100 year old drivers in broken down 100
    > >year old cars to make their tables they’d match road design and speed
    > >limit better.

    > Yeah, we ought to design the roads for 22 year old cokeheads driving
    > state of the art Mustangs, shouldn’t we?  

    How about an average driver in an average car?  When I literally have
    seen 80 year old cars on a highway traveling safely at or close to the
    speed limit that says to me something is wrong.  (and I did indeed see
    a Model A Ford on US-50 either last weekend or the weekend before.)  I
    seriously doubt that the problem is that vehicles aren’t any safer or
    more capable than they were 80 years ago.

    65 in a 55 is a non-issue, safety-wise, at least around here.

    nate

  7. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    In article <o3gqc319mjltfi25gstke0mmcbq4md9…@4ax.com>, John Lansford wrote:
    > tetraethylleadREMOVET…@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote:

    >>In article <mpupc31as7c9kdabrvd13l19t0paefm…@4ax.com>, Scott in SoCal wrote:

    >>> "The idea is to achieve speed control," Latoski said. "Speed limits
    >>> don’t necessarily do that. Enforcement does that but can only occur
    >>> over a finite period of time. Or there can be physical controls. This
    >>> is a low-cost mechanism for us just to call people’s attention to
    >>> their speed."

    >>Maybe if they didn’t use blind 100 year old drivers in broken down 100
    >>year old cars to make their tables they’d match road design and speed
    >>limit better.

    > Yeah, we ought to design the roads for 22 year old cokeheads driving
    > state of the art Mustangs, shouldn’t we?  

    No, just learn that data trumps assumptions.

    .

  8. admin says:

    TnDOT uses very short centerline stripes on that really bad fog section of
    I-75 between Chattanooga and Knoxville, TN as a way of ‘fooling’ drivings into
    slowing down in dense fog.


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  9. admin says:

    On Aug 23, 9:55 am, Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    <xeton2…@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > Scott in SoCal wrote:
    > > WTF kind of logic is this? Are these painted stripes going to work
    > > only on drivers who are exceeding the speed limit? Or are the Sloths
    > > going to become even slothier?

    > >http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/197622

    > > Highway engineers’ tricks fool drivers to cut speed
    > > The Associated Press
    > > Tucson, Arizona | Published: 08.22.2007

    > > LAKE HAVASU CITY – Highway engineers in Mohave County are trying to
    > > fool drivers into slowing down by using specially designed road
    > > markings that send subliminal messages to motorists.
    > > The county has painted a so-called optical speed zone on a two-mile
    > > stretch of southbound Stockton Hill Road about 20 miles north of
    > > Kingman. Sets of white markings are painted perpendicular to the
    > > yellow centerline 150 feet apart for the first five intervals,
    > > reducing by 10 feet until they are 100 feet apart.
    > > Drivers see the markings going by faster and faster, subliminally
    > > convincing them their speed has increased, causing them to either
    > > brake or take their foot off the accelerator, said Steve Latoski, the
    > > county’s design engineering manager.
    > > "The idea is to achieve speed control," Latoski said. "Speed limits
    > > don’t necessarily do that. Enforcement does that but can only occur
    > > over a finite period of time. Or there can be physical controls. This
    > > is a low-cost mechanism for us just to call people’s attention to
    > > their speed."
    > > The stretch of highway chosen for the experiment is at the end of a
    > > long, rural stretch and right before it enters developed areas.
    > > Although posted at 55 mph, the averages speeds are at least 10 mph
    > > higher, Latoski said.
    > > Since the striping was painted on July 11, average daytime speeds have
    > > decreased by 2 mph, and nighttime speeds dropped by nearly 5 mph.
    > > "If we can demonstrate consistent, significant decrease, we will
    > > likely look at other, similar applications in the county," Latoski
    > > said.

    > The way to stop these deadly kid-killing speeders is to throw them in
    > prison.  Prom solved.

    But who hosts the after-prom?

  10. admin says:

    Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS wrote:

    > The way to stop these deadly kid-killing speeders is to throw them in
    > prison.  Prom solved.

    But what about homecoming?

    Take care,
    Rich

    God bless the USA

    And if I claim to be a wise man
    it surely means that I don’t know.

                     –Kansas

  11. admin says:

    Scott in SoCal wrote:
    > WTF kind of logic is this? Are these painted stripes going to work
    > only on drivers who are exceeding the speed limit? Or are the Sloths
    > going to become even slothier?

    The assholes who set too-low speed limits see Sloths as gifts from God.  Look
    at how they encouraged and helped LLBs during the 55.

  12. admin says:

    John Lansford wrote:
    > Yeah, we ought to design the roads for 22 year old cokeheads driving
    > state of the art Mustangs, shouldn’t we?  

    Yes.  There is neither moral justification nor practical need for any speed
    limit other than the "too fast for conditions" law.

  13. admin says:

     Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS:

    > The way to stop these deadly kid-killing speeders is to throw them in
    > prison.  Prom solved.

    How about graduation?


    I ncompetence &
    C orruption
    E picenter

  14. admin says:

    John David Galt <j…@diogenes.sacramento.ca.us> wrote:

    >John Lansford wrote:
    >> Yeah, we ought to design the roads for 22 year old cokeheads driving
    >> state of the art Mustangs, shouldn’t we?  

    >Yes.  There is neither moral justification nor practical need for any speed
    >limit other than the "too fast for conditions" law.

    What you and the other members of the "let the driver decide" crowd
    are advocating would result in unsafe roads for everyone, including
    those wanting to drive as fast as they want.

    John Lansford, PE

    John’s Shop of Wood
    http://wood.jlansford.net/

  15. admin says:

    John Lansford wrote:
    > What you and the other members of the "let the driver decide" crowd
    > are advocating would result in unsafe roads for everyone, including
    > those wanting to drive as fast as they want.

    How many highways have say less than 60% of drivers in the 10 mph pace?
      How many have less than say 90% of drivers in the 15 mph pace?

  16. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    John Lansford wrote:
    > John David Galt <j…@diogenes.sacramento.ca.us> wrote:

    >>John Lansford wrote:

    >>>Yeah, we ought to design the roads for 22 year old cokeheads driving
    >>>state of the art Mustangs, shouldn’t we?  

    >>Yes.  There is neither moral justification nor practical need for any speed
    >>limit other than the "too fast for conditions" law.

    > What you and the other members of the "let the driver decide" crowd
    > are advocating would result in unsafe roads for everyone, including
    > those wanting to drive as fast as they want.

    > John Lansford, PE
    > —
    > John’s Shop of Wood
    > http://wood.jlansford.net/

    Utter and complete balls.  The "85th percentile rule" which you might be
    familiar with is pretty much the embodiment of this principle;
    discarding the outlying 15% gets rid of the nutbars.  Oddly enough
    studies have shown time and time again that the 85th is actually the
    best method to use from a safety standpoint.

    nate


    replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
    http://members.cox.net/njnagel

  17. admin says:

    In article <b7vrc3tcunt6qli9qc7s9h5c6m2raat…@4ax.com>, John Lansford wrote:
    > What you and the other members of the "let the driver decide" crowd
    > are advocating would result in unsafe roads for everyone, including
    > those wanting to drive as fast as they want.

    It would be a pity for people who see themselves as the parents when it
    turns out they really aren’t needed.

    Now tell me, since so many speed limits have been set so absurdly low for so
    long that most people apparently ignore speed limits period, why do speed
    limits have any benefit?  They are misleading, they are often set by whim
    of local government, they rarely indicate anything about the road. What
    good are they?

  18. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    Brent P wrote:
    > In article <b7vrc3tcunt6qli9qc7s9h5c6m2raat…@4ax.com>, John Lansford wrote:

    >>What you and the other members of the "let the driver decide" crowd
    >>are advocating would result in unsafe roads for everyone, including
    >>those wanting to drive as fast as they want.

    > It would be a pity for people who see themselves as the parents when it
    > turns out they really aren’t needed.

    > Now tell me, since so many speed limits have been set so absurdly low for so
    > long that most people apparently ignore speed limits period, why do speed
    > limits have any benefit?  They are misleading, they are often set by whim
    > of local government, they rarely indicate anything about the road. What
    > good are they?

    They make money for the government and insurance companies, at the
    expense of the wallets and possibly employability of for the most part
    citizens who are no threat to the general public.  They also provide
    probable cause for police to examine pretty much any vehicle they want.

    Oh, wait, that was one of them rhetorical type questions, wunnit?

    nate


    replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
    http://members.cox.net/njnagel

  19. admin says:

    Nate Nagel wrote:
    > Brent P wrote:
    >> Now tell me, since so many speed limits have been set so absurdly low
    >> for so long that most people apparently ignore speed limits period,
    >> why do speed limits have any benefit?  They are misleading, they are
    >> often set by whim of local government, they rarely indicate anything
    >> about the road. What good are they?
    > They make money for the government and insurance companies, at the
    > expense of the wallets and possibly employability of for the most part
    > citizens who are no threat to the general public.  They also provide
    > probable cause for police to examine pretty much any vehicle they want.

    > Oh, wait, that was one of them rhetorical type questions, wunnit?

    You probably don’t remember that thread from 2002 where Brent kept
    asking this question again and again, and every single person would side
    step it and bring up a non sequitur.

  20. admin says:

    In article <mpupc31as7c9kdabrvd13l19t0paefm…@4ax.com>,
    Scott in SoCal  <scottenazt…@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >WTF kind of logic is this? Are these painted stripes going to work
    >only on drivers who are exceeding the speed limit? Or are the Sloths
    >going to become even slothier?

    It’s worse than that.  The painted stripes will work for a while.  But
    regular drivers of the road will start noticing that the speed cues
    provided by the painted stripes don’t match the other speed cues.  So
    they’ll start disregarding them.  Worse, they’ll likely also start
    disregarding similar speed cues even when they are real.

      There’s no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
      result in a fully-depreciated one.