>    I used to carry flares until I read an article about them (and the
>    other options for alerting traffic) in Consumer Reports. Their claim
>    was that those reflective triangles were *much* brighter than anything
>    else (flares were second, flashlights a very distant third). They were
>    easier to see in any situation (fog, etc). They also do not have to be
>    checked every few years (I guess they expire, huh?) and they won’t
>    spark any gas fires. I also find them easier to store because they
>    don’t make me nervous.

Jeez, CR is getting *so* narrow-minded.  Actually, BOTH triangles (or other
reflective attention-getter) and flares are useful, for somewhat separate
purposes.  Triangles are most useful at night and when you can place it such
that it will face oncoming traffic dead-on.  On a narrow mountain roadway on
a curve, you may not be able to do this without it actually being in the lane.

Flares can be placed along the shoulder, or in the traffic lane itself; you
don’t have to worry about it being knocked over.  Also, flares get attention
in daylight.

Just my $.02.

–
Alan Denney      al…@informix.com      {pyramid|uunet}!infmx!aland

  Smith and Wesson: the Ultimate Point-and-Click User Interface.

If you want to use the cost to society arguement about helmets, then I’d
have to say that riding a motorcycle at all creates a unacceptable cost
to society. I did some figures one time and concluded that motorcycle
riders were twenty times as likely to get killed as automobile passengers
on a passenger mile basis.

I recognize that such behavior has a social cost, but I regard it as part
of the price we pay for living in a free society and I’m willing to live
with it.

(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
j…@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982

I’ve received several responses to this posting from several newsgroups.
Almost all of the responses assume that my posting was an argument for
mandatory helmet usage. One respondent claimed to be an MSF instructor and
was extraordinarily (even for the net) offensive. (even accused me of
being a Christian! Well I never….!!!)

If you find words that state that I support helmet laws, you should get
your vision checked. Or work on your reading comprehension.

The Cliff Notes version:

 a. People who ride without helmets are, in my opinion, being stupid.
    (Riding without gloves, jacket, boots, long pants are also degrees
     of stupid.)
 b. Your crash, if severe, will inconvenience or traumatize some people
    who don’t deserve it. Their opinions about bikes & bikers count in
    the ballot box.
 c. Deer shit happens. And it mostly happens at dusk and at night.

There are times to NOT ride. Is this one?

No! Today is Ride To Work Day!!! )

Ron

>You can buy reflective vests (and wristbands/ankle bands, etc.)
>cheaply at any bicycle store.  The best of them now combine the
>retro-reflector tape with a fluorescent background.  They come in
>a variety of colors, including, inexplicably, green (bzzzt! wrong
>message!).

The green color grabs someone’s attention; unfortunately the orange
colors are used too much so people often ignore it.  Many fire trucks
are now done in this strange fluorescent yellow-green color — it’s
ugly (and I think fire trucks should be red but there’s no way you
can say you didn’t see the truck.

jim frost
j…@centerline.com

>In article <24…@dog.ee.lbl.gov> jtc…@csa3.lbl.gov writes:
>When I lived in Virginia, the state police had a policy there:  If you
>stopped to give someone flares and then hung around to help them and a
>state trooper showed up, they would ‘replace your flares’, usually with
>10 or so of the 30 minute flares.  I stopped and gave out 30 or 40
>flares in the time I lived there and only bought six.

        Having just recently said that I thought triangles were better, I now
        think I will also get some flares, as I can then stop and help out the
        semi-stranded motorist but then be on my way again without having to
        a) sacrifice my expensive triangles or b) wait for official help.

=Stanley, Idaho===============Sea-Bass Sears====================New York City=
   o  1979 Yamaha XS750|Perception      )    Corsica|     |       1985  Toyota
 _/\_>       Just ride!|             o /            ||~~~~~~\___       4Runner
O,> /O   e-mail: scs8@ |  ~^~^ <====<\/====> ^~^    ||_–____–_)   Just about
cunixb.cc.columbia.edu |Just  ~^~^~^ / ^~^~^  kayak!|  ()    () anything else!
   Send lawyers, guns, and money, the shit has hit the fan. — Warren Zevon
==============================–>DoD #0516<–=================================

>Flares are a very good idea.  I keep some of the long ones for me
>and a handful of the $0.99 15-minute jobbies for Samaritanizing
>people who have busted down on the freeway.  (My usage: drop
>’em 100′ and 50′ behind the hapless motorist, stick an unlit one in
>his hand, and, barring injuries, go along my way after enjoining
>him/her to buy some of the damn things and carry them in the trunk.
>The Highway Patrol drops enough of them to direct a B-17 raid, but
>then again, it’s their line of work, not mine.)  The prospect of
>even sitting in my stalled car on our freeways without one or more
>flares, much less trying to do anything to it, is downright terrifying.

When I lived in Virginia, the state police had a policy there:  If you
stopped to give someone flares and then hung around to help them and a
state trooper showed up, they would ‘replace your flares’, usually with
10 or so of the 30 minute flares.  I stopped and gave out 30 or 40
flares in the time I lived there and only bought six.

–
Nick Simicich – uunet!bywater!scifi!njs – n…@watson.ibm.com
SSI #AOWI 3958, HSA 318, NAUI #14065
Join the movement —  turn ‘to bush’ into a verb.

[....]

> HOW COULD SHE BE SO ALMIGHTY STUPID TO BE RIDING WITHOUT
> A HELMET!!!!! She is free to choose to ride helmetless but I, nor any of
> the helpers was free to let her die unattended.  

A few years ago in Houston (Youhston? , I was introduced to a friend of
a friend in the parking lot of my apartment.  He was on a motorcycle and
there was no sign of a helmet anywhere.  When I asked about it, he (in a
tone of voice that said "drop it") said that they were for wimps.  He
left shortly after that and got less than a mile when a truck ran a stop
light and killed him…  Head injuries, the kind that a helmet would
have protected his head from.  Sort of the ultimate "I told you so".

About the flare thing:  After the cops get there and have things under
control, tell them that you used up your flares.  They will usually go
to the big box they keep in the trunk and replace them for you.  They
would have had to put flares out anyway.  

About people that stop and stand and watch at accidents:  It is a little
known unwritten law that allows the death penalty to be carried out on
them with *NO DUE PROCESS* in the swiftest and most convenient manner!
I once sent someone to call for help at an accident that I came across
that involved massive trauma while I provided first aid to the victim
of the accident.  The person left and never called.  We waited
for a long time before a cop just happened along and called it in on
his radio.  I don’t think the victim made it.  If I *EVER* see that
person again…  

  TED FEUERBACH   Scientific Systems Consultant  Trilogy Consulting, Inc.
  Lake St. Louis, MO        (314) 537-6603       tjf…@bb1t.monsanto.com
  Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed herein are MY OWN and obviously not
  the opinions of Trilogy, Monsanto or either of my two ex-wives.          

>Flares are a very good idea.  I keep some of the long ones for me

        [stuff about flares deleted]

>few seconds up front can save a lot of grief later on.)  This is an
>advantage to those reflective triangles, which also don’t burn out.
>They don’t seem to get the same amount of attention as flares,
>though, especially in daytime and/or fog.

        I used to carry flares until I read an article about them (and the
        other options for alerting traffic) in Consumer Reports. Their claim
        was that those reflective triangles were *much* brighter than anything
        else (flares were second, flashlights a very distant third). They were
        easier to see in any situation (fog, etc). They also do not have to be
        checked every few years (I guess they expire, huh?) and they won’t
        spark any gas fires. I also find them easier to store because they
        don’t make me nervous.

                [more stuff deleted]

>Take a first-aid course at the next opportunity.  Comes in handy
>at the damnedest times, and tells you what not to do as well as
>what to do.

        This is the best advice around. I feel much better knowing that if I
        was first on an accident, I could really *do* something if I had to.
        I don’t look forward to the idea, but at least I’d know what to do.

        Just my $.03 or $.04…

=Stanley, Idaho===============Sea-Bass Sears====================New York City=
   o  1979 Yamaha XS750|Perception      )    Corsica|     |       1985  Toyota
 _/\_>       Just ride!|             o /            ||~~~~~~\___       4Runner
O,> /O   e-mail: scs8@ |  ~^~^ <====<\/====> ^~^    ||_–____–_)   Just about
cunixb.cc.columbia.edu |Just  ~^~^~^ / ^~^~^  kayak!|  ()    () anything else!
   Send lawyers, guns, and money, the shit has hit the fan. — Warren Zevon
==============================–>DoD #0516<–=================================

In fact, the triangles, in IL at least, are legally the same as flares
for vehicles required to carry them.

>I’d suggest keeping the [reflective]vest under the front seat so you can put

One of the first applications of my Conspicuity sticker kit was to
put large patches on the back edge of our car doors.  If you car didn’t
come with reflectors already there, the stickers are cheap visibility.

–
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
j…@i88.isc.com                                        Naperville, IL
’71 CL450-K4 "Gleep"  -   "Worth Reposession"
DoD #094,  PBF #03  "I’m not mad; just terribly, terribly hurt."  HDM #007

Flares are a very good idea.  I keep some of the long ones for me
and a handful of the $0.99 15-minute jobbies for Samaritanizing
people who have busted down on the freeway.  (My usage: drop
‘em 100′ and 50′ behind the hapless motorist, stick an unlit one in
his hand, and, barring injuries, go along my way after enjoining
him/her to buy some of the damn things and carry them in the trunk.
The Highway Patrol drops enough of them to direct a B-17 raid, but
then again, it’s their line of work, not mine.)  The prospect of
even sitting in my stalled car on our freeways without one or more
flares, much less trying to do anything to it, is downright terrifying.

(And for those who think they’ll always be able to find a safe place
to pull over:  There isn’t always a safe place, and sometimes a car
simply dies where it dies and refuses to go another foot.  Both have
happened to me.)

Note that (at least around here) you have to stay on red alert even
after laying down a flare pattern.  I once almost got hit by a
numbskull who decided to use the flare lane to leapfrog ten or so
of his opponents in stop-and-go traffic.  It’s a good thing he was
going fast; I had a lit one in my hand for safe walking, and he had
his windows down, and a man can only resist so much temptation.

Use good sense. No extra points for lighting off a gas leak with
a flare. (As always, size up the scene before doing anything.  Those
few seconds up front can save a lot of grief later on.)  This is an
advantage to those reflective triangles, which also don’t burn out.
They don’t seem to get the same amount of attention as flares,
though, especially in daytime and/or fog.

You can buy reflective vests (and wristbands/ankle bands, etc.)
cheaply at any bicycle store.  The best of them now combine the
retro-reflector tape with a fluorescent background.  They come in
a variety of colors, including, inexplicably, green (bzzzt! wrong
message!).  You can also enhance the visibility of your emergency
flashlight with reflector tape.  

I’d suggest keeping the vest under the front seat so you can put
it on before getting out of the car. I feel as though the first
few seconds, when I’ve committed to getting out but do not yet
have an escape route other than vaulting up on top of my car and
praying, are especially dangerous.

The official word on helping at an accident or breakdown scene is
to go _past_ it before pulling over.  This not only helps ensure
your safety, but keeps you from blocking emergency vehicles.

Take a first-aid course at the next opportunity.  Comes in handy
at the damnedest times, and tells you what not to do as well as
what to do.

Finally, BE CAREFUL.  There are meatheads who simply won’t recognize
anyone attempting to direct traffic who isn’t a uniformed official
of some kind. For that matter, even the cops get hit once in awhile.
(One lady responded to my warning signal — an ambulance was on the
scene and I was a few hundred feet down the road — by taking both
hands off the wheel and fluffing up her hair.  Didn’t slow down a bit.)
Rule Zero is always "There are enough victims here already — don’t
become one more!"  That means maximum alertness and a suitably updated
theory about an escape route to use if the oncoming car doesn’t seem
to see you.

The above are not the official opinions of anybody, just some lessons
learned after being the first guy on the scene at several urban and
rural accidents.  (And oh, yeah, the only two fatal ones involved
drunks, so think about THAT before having "one for the road"… A
dead baby lying next to an overturned truck is not my idea of fun.)

Drive, ride, assist, whatever carefully,
–Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People’s Republic of Berkeley"