I was just wondering, to start a good thread, about the following:
What’s the best car you’ve ever driven?
What’s the fastest you’ve ever driven?
What’s the highest acceleration " " ?
What’s the highest lateral-g " "?
What’s the most expensive?
What’s the coolest looking….?
etc.
Feel free to add more…..
Andrea
In article <2uskrc$…@k2.San-Jose.ate.slb.com> Andrea Rosso,
ro…@lark.NoSubdomain.NoDomain writes:
>I was just wondering, to start a good thread, about the following:
>What’s the best car you’ve ever driven?
1994 BMW M3, E36, European version. Fast, very fast, excellent
handling, very
well build, superb brakes, refined in every detail. Only a little $$$
>What’s the worst car you’ve ever driven?
1994 Ford Mustang GT (5sp), lacking any refinement you’d expect from a
newly
developed car. Looks 90′s, handles 60′s, rides 60′s, build 60′s.
>What’s the fastest you’ve ever driven?
about 165 mph in an unlimited M5. Not for 10 sec, but for half an hour
Only possible in Germany of course!
>What’s the highest acceleration " " ?
>What’s the highest lateral-g " "?
About 1.2g in a Volvo 480 ES with fully active suspension. It’s my own
design,
and lot’s of fun to drive. Zero body roll and pitch, even at 1g lateral
or longitudinal
acceleration. Ride is incomparable with any contemporary vehicle with
standard
passive suspension.
>What’s the most expensive?
The same 480 ES with active suspension. Hand build, with a team of
engineers
(about 1 year labor and two years engineering), I guess about a million
dollar.
>What’s the coolest looking….?
Definitely an Italian car: Bugatti EB110 for example. Italians have
got a great
taste for design. Look at the new Fiat Coupe. Isn’t it nice to see
cars like this
between al those boring Escorts, Golfs, Astras, Tauruses, etc.
Sometimes, I
really don’t understand how concept cars almost always develop to very
boring standard vehicles. Has nobody guts to build a real nice and
affordable
car derived from concepts?
>What’s the worst looking….?
Many American cars from the 80′s. They look real boxy from the outside
and
tacky from the inside (red plush). But even the 94 VW Golf III looks
very boring
to me. What is the progress in design with the Golf I?
>What do you wish for the future…?
Active suspension (AS) in passenger vehicles. With let’s say five
years engineering
effort it is possible to have fully AS for an affordable price. I
don’t mean AS as
in the Q45 or Soarer. But real AS (high bandwidth, ride & handling).
>What don’t you wish for the future…?
Gagged like, Intelligent cruise control. Keep the fun for the driver,
don’t let the
computers take over control!
Paul.
In article <2uuv05$…@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>, Paul J.Th. Venhovens <Paul.Venhov…@umich.edu> writes:
|> About 1.2g in a Volvo 480 ES with fully active suspension. It’s my own
|> design,
|> and lot’s of fun to drive. Zero body roll and pitch, even at 1g lateral
|> or longitudinal
|> acceleration. Ride is incomparable with any contemporary vehicle with
|> standard
|> passive suspension.
|>
1.2g on a Volvo??!???!!!?!!!? I don’t beleive it…… The best cornering street
car I think is the Diable at that only does 0.95g (correct me if I’m mistaken).
I’ve ridden up to 1.5g but that was in a race car (formula style).
You are talking about lateral-g right? How did you measure it?
Andrea
Paul J.Th. Venhovens (Paul.Venhov…@umich.edu) wrote:
{snip}
: >What do you wish for the future…?
:
: Active suspension (AS) in passenger vehicles. With let’s say five
: years engineering effort it is possible to have fully AS for an
: affordable price. I don’t mean AS as in the Q45 or Soarer.
: But real AS (high bandwidth, ride & handling).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: >What don’t you wish for the future…?
:
: Gagged like, Intelligent cruise control. Keep the fun for the driver,
: don’t let the computers take over control!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Huh??? Oh, I see! …you’re gonna build a *PASSIVE* AS system!
good thinking,
Mark
Andrea Rosso <ro…@lark.NoSubdomain.NoDomain> wrote in response to:
>Paul J.Th. Venhovens <Paul.Venhov…@umich.edu> writes:
>> About 1.2g in a Volvo 480 ES with fully active suspension. It’s my own
>> design,
>> and lot’s of fun to drive. Zero body roll and pitch, even at 1g lateral
>> or longitudinal
>> acceleration. Ride is incomparable with any contemporary vehicle with
>> standard
>> passive suspension.
>1.2g on a Volvo??!???!!!?!!!? I don’t beleive it…. The best cornering street
>car I think is the Diable at that only does 0.95g (correct me if I’m mistaken).
>I’ve ridden up to 1.5g but that was in a race car (formula style).
>You are talking about lateral-g right? How did you measure it?
That’s the beauty of fully active suspension. I’ve seen films of this
being done at Volvo and Lotus, and it is amazing to see the car cruising
through the slalom with the body level the whole time.
–
___Michael Dey____"Pooh-pooh to you and that’s what I shall say!"_G&S__
|>Native Texan< >PP-ASEL,AOPA< >Marked man< | National Center for
| University of Colorado at Boulder | Atmospheric Research
| d…@rintintin.colorado.edu | d…@ncar.ucar.edu
In article <2uuv05$…@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu> Paul J.Th. Venhovens <Paul.Venhov…@umich.edu> writes:
> 1994 Ford Mustang GT (5sp), lacking any refinement you’d expect from a
>newly
> developed car. Looks 90′s, handles 60′s, rides 60′s, build 60′s.
The new Mustang looks 90′s?
> About 1.2g in a Volvo 480 ES with fully active suspension. It’s my own
>design,
> and lot’s of fun to drive. Zero body roll and pitch, even at 1g lateral
>or longitudinal
> acceleration. Ride is incomparable with any contemporary vehicle with
>standard
> passive suspension.
>>What’s the most expensive?
> The same 480 ES with active suspension. Hand build, with a team of
>engineers
> (about 1 year labor and two years engineering), I guess about a million
>dollar.
Ahhh, Volvo. So how much will the active suspension cost? Infiniti’s 5Kdollars
flopped if memory serves right….
>>What’s the coolest looking….?
> Definitely an Italian car: Bugatti EB110 for example. Italians have
>got a great
> taste for design. Look at the new Fiat Coupe. Isn’t it nice to see
>cars like this
> between al those boring Escorts, Golfs, Astras, Tauruses, etc.
Fiat coupe… how long does it last, like the X1/9?
>Sometimes, I
> really don’t understand how concept cars almost always develop to very
> boring standard vehicles. Has nobody guts to build a real nice and
>affordable
> car derived from concepts?
Perhaps Chevrolet should have built the Express back from the 80′s,
. Looked
30 mpg while cruising at 150 mph, courtesy of a turbine engine
and sounded like it, too. Think practical, Paul.
Some cars do make it. The Neon did, the (Pontiac) Sunfire will, etc. Back
in the 80′s when Pontiac brought the APV in Europe many people thought
it was a concept car there
> Many American cars from the 80′s. They look real boxy from the outside
>and
> tacky from the inside (red plush). But even the 94 VW Golf III looks
>very boring
> to me. What is the progress in design with the Golf I?
If you have to ask… Design continuity. Someone sees a Porsche/Bimmer/
Golf/… and knows what it is from a MILE away. Same reason the Mustang
above. Tradition plays a good part too. I saw the Golf /// and actually
thought it was a very nice looking car.
Why is VW so keen on Design 1 or whatever the hell they call it? because
it LOOKS like a bug, that’s why…
> Active suspension (AS) in passenger vehicles. With let’s say five
>years engineering
> effort it is possible to have fully AS for an affordable price. I
>don’t mean AS as
> in the Q45 or Soarer. But real AS (high bandwidth, ride & handling).
Hmmm. I won’t comment on this
>>What don’t you wish for the future…?
> Gagged like, Intelligent cruise control. Keep the fun for the driver,
>don’t let the
> computers take over control!
Hey, what the hell, they only control your engine/body/brakes/suspension/
transmission/CD Player/air bag/cupholder/…
Last day before vacation!!
Spiros
–
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos Kokomo, IN 46904 (317) 451-0815
Software Development Tools, AD/SI c2…@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Delco Electronics/GM Hughes Electronics #include <Xm/XmDisclaimer.h>
Andrea Rosso (ro…@lark.NoSubdomain.NoDomain) wrote:
: I was just wondering, to start a good thread, about the following:
: What’s the best car you’ve ever driven?
: What’s the fastest you’ve ever driven?
: What’s the highest acceleration " " ?
: What’s the highest lateral-g " "?
: What’s the most expensive?
: What’s the coolest looking….?
: etc.
: Feel free to add more…..
: Andrea
That would have to be my current car, for all categories… My old
VW Rabbit Diesel and Izuzu P’up don’t really compare.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
| Jon Steiger – DoD# 1038 | ’80 Honda CB650 – Slow |
| stei0…@mary.cs.fredonia.edu | ’82 Yamaha Virago 750 – Faster |
| stei0…@pat.cs.fredonia.edu | ’91 Yamaha FZR600 – Even Faster |
| steiger0…@a12t.cc.fredonia.ed | ’91 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 – Too Fast |
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*-*-*
>1.2g on a Volvo??!???!!!?!!!? I don’t beleive it…… The best
cornering street
>car I think is the Diable at that only does 0.95g (correct me if I’m
mistaken).
>I’ve ridden up to 1.5g but that was in a race car (formula style).
>You are talking about lateral-g right? How did you measure it?
>Andrea
First of all, this is not a normal vehicle.
It is not using aerodynamics to get 3g in corners.
The lateral g-limit depends on many things:
– tires
– vehicle mass
– road surface friction
– speed
– suspension kinematics/stiffnesses
– temperature
Since we have modified the suspension with actuators and
since the vehicle doesn’t roll or pitch, the wheel planes of
all four tires are always perpendicular to the road surface.
This results in an optimal tire-ground contact and
thus provides the best tire side force generation.
(A cambering wheel always reduces the side force,
except for motor cycle tires). Furthermore this vehicle
had slightly modified tires. The car is equipped with 10
accelerometers (2 lateral, 1 longitudinal and 7 vertical).
I don’t know how Car Magazines measure the lateral G,
but I know it is quite difficult. If you don’t put your
G-sensor in the center of gravity (cg) of your vehicle
and if your vehicle is rolling in corners, you will make
mistakes. If the vehicle rolls you will for example measure
a component of the acceleration due to gravity. Those
errors can be really large! Furthermore your measured
signal is quite noisy (typically +/- 0.1g) due to all kinds
of (tire) vibrations. Filtering is necessary. So, to be honest,
I’m a bit skeptical about C/D and R/T lateral g tests. If you
don’t instrument a car sufficiently enough you will never
be able to get good g-measurements.
Don’t think that 1.0g is the ultimate level. If have
quite al lot experience with tire data and some standard
passenger car tires are able to do 1.1-1.2g. All you need
is the right car with the right suspension to obtain this
value on the road.
Paul.
Paul J.Th. Venhovens (Paul.Venhov…@umich.edu) wrote:
: I don’t know how Car Magazines measure the lateral G,
: but I know it is quite difficult. If you don’t put your
{snip}
: I’m a bit skeptical about C/D and R/T lateral g tests. If you
: don’t instrument a car sufficiently enough you will never
: be able to get good g-measurements.
The only lateral-G "measurements" I can recall seeing in US
car-rags are for their skid-pad tests. It’s not too tough
to convert mph to G’s if you know the circle’s radius.
but I’m sure you knew that,
Mark
Worst? No contest. The Renault Anchor and Appliance (er, Encore and
Alliance), during a period in the early- and mid-80s when some big car
rental firms in the US were infatuated with them. Besides their
notoriously poor functioning, I’ve never been in a car that made me feel
so much like I could tear it apart with my bare hands. Matter of fact,
I rather wanted to.
–Joe
In article <2v1agb$…@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu> Paul J.Th. Venhovens <Paul.Venhov…@umich.edu> writes:
>>1.2g on a Volvo??!???!!!?!!!? I don’t beleive it……
>Since we have modified the suspension with actuators and
>since the vehicle doesn’t roll or pitch, the wheel planes of
>all four tires are always perpendicular to the road surface.
>This results in an optimal tire-ground contact and
>thus provides the best tire side force generation.
This is certainly believable. I have seen the high side of +0.95 gee’s
in my passive suspension Volvo on the track (using a calibrated
G-analyst) this is on every corner so it is not a fluke reading
simply a lateral acceleration developed dynamically.
Other cars are quite similar, it that dynamic lateral
acceleration is greater than the "skid pad" limit.
Volvo had funded the initial active suspension work at Lotus.
After GM bought Lotus is 1986, most of the demonstrators
were ‘Vettes rather than 740gle station wagons.
With Lotus sold again, who knows what we will see.
Quit ragging on Volvo. At least 20-25% of the folks on my
mailing list drive cars with souped-up suspensions (the Volvo-Net).
tim
In article <2v1agb$…@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>, Paul J.Th. Venhovens <Paul.Venhov…@umich.edu> writes:
|>
|> Since we have modified the suspension with actuators and
|> since the vehicle doesn’t roll or pitch, the wheel planes of
|> all four tires are always perpendicular to the road surface.
|> This results in an optimal tire-ground contact and
|> thus provides the best tire side force generation.
|> (A cambering wheel always reduces the side force,
|> except for motor cycle tires). Furthermore this vehicle
|> had slightly modified tires. The car is equipped with 10
|> accelerometers (2 lateral, 1 longitudinal and 7 vertical).
|> I don’t know how Car Magazines measure the lateral G,
|> but I know it is quite difficult. If you don’t put your
|> G-sensor in the center of gravity (cg) of your vehicle
|> and if your vehicle is rolling in corners, you will make
|> mistakes. If the vehicle rolls you will for example measure
|> a component of the acceleration due to gravity. Those
|> errors can be really large! Furthermore your measured
|> signal is quite noisy (typically +/- 0.1g) due to all kinds
|> of (tire) vibrations. Filtering is necessary. So, to be honest,
|> I’m a bit skeptical about C/D and R/T lateral g tests. If you
|> don’t instrument a car sufficiently enough you will never
|> be able to get good g-measurements.
|>
Can you tell me more about these active suspension? Is it something you made
or is it something commercially available? How are the actuators controlled
and how do you determine when the car is unstable?
Andrea
Jon N. Steiger (stei0…@mary.cs.fredonia.edu) wrote:
: Andrea Rosso (ro…@lark.NoSubdomain.NoDomain) wrote:
: : I was just wondering, to start a good thread, about the following:
: : What’s the best car you’ve ever driven? BMW Z1 Roadster
: : What’s the fastest you’ve ever driven? new Porsche 911
: : What’s the highest acceleration " " ? Porsche 911RS /I have ever…
: : What’s the highest lateral-g " "? I don’t know too
: : What’s the most expensive? Jaguar V12 or Mercedes, I don’t know
: : What’s the coolest looking….? Porsche 911, BMW Z1 or Ferrari 356
In article <CsFHJE….@Yuri.CC.Uni-Augsburg.DE>, wur…@teflon.RZ.Uni-Augsburg.DE (Martin Wurzer) writes:
|> Jon N. Steiger (stei0…@mary.cs.fredonia.edu) wrote:
|> : Andrea Rosso (ro…@lark.NoSubdomain.NoDomain) wrote:
|> : : I was just wondering, to start a good thread, about the following:
|>
|> : : What’s the best car you’ve ever driven? BMW Z1 Roadster
|> : : What’s the fastest you’ve ever driven? new Porsche 911
|> : : What’s the highest acceleration " " ? Porsche 911RS /I have ever…
|> : : What’s the highest lateral-g " "? I don’t know too
|> : : What’s the most expensive? Jaguar V12 or Mercedes, I don’t know
|> : : What’s the coolest looking….? Porsche 911, BMW Z1 or Ferrari 356
Rich, test driver, race driver, or just valet parker?
That’s an awesome collection of cars you’ve driven. Do you own any of them?
Andrea
In article <1994Jul1.052246.7…@penny.cs.fredonia.edu>
stei0…@mary.cs.fredonia.edu (Jon N. Steiger) writes:
> Andrea Rosso (ro…@lark.NoSubdomain.NoDomain) wrote:
> : I was just wondering, to start a good thread, about the following:
: the *most fun* car you’ve ever driven? =’67 427 ShelbyCobra
> : What’s the fastest you’ve ever driven?= 200+
> : What’s the highest acceleration " " ? =’67 427 ShelbyCobra
> : What’s the highest lateral-g " "?= 1.4 (formula V)
> : What’s the most expensive? =’67 427 ShelbyCobra
> : What’s the coolest looking….?=GT-40 ShelbyCobra
> : etc.
: Slowest?…1956 Isetta 3 wheeler
: Best Ride?…1959 Lincon
: Worst Ride?…’68 Dodge WP600 w/ 22′ mobildrill (5 ton 4×4)
: Favorite Current?…A real Toss up between the F-40 LC & the Subaru
Wagon ( 4 wheel drive, Turbo, Posi, Air Suspension, Gravel Road
screamer/ poor mans Rallycar)
> : Andrea Rosso (ro…@lark.NoSubdomain.NoDomain) wrote:
> : : I was just wondering, to start a good thread, about the following:
> : : What’s the best car you’ve ever driven? I sat in a Viper and some
Ferrari’s and an Esprit, only drove vette’s though, and a 3000gtvr4
> : : What’s the fastest you’ve ever driven? about 120 in an 86 camry
> : : What’s the highest acceleration " " ? A 70′s vette, or a modified
stang, or 3000gtvr4
> : : What’s the highest lateral-g " "? probably the same as above
> : : What’s the most expensive? a Ferrari 348, probably (only sat in it)
> : : What’s the coolest looking….? Delorean, perhaps, or the Italian
cars. Again, and sadly, I only sat in them. Didn’t have the courage to
ask for a drive… Maybe after I get out of school. One dealer offered
me a drive in a brand new RX-7, but I didn’t have the time. Biggest
mistake of my life…
Mike
>> Andrea Rosso (ro…@lark.NoSubdomain.NoDomain) wrote:
>> : I was just wondering, to start a good thread, about the following:
> : the *most fun* car you’ve ever driven?
Haven’t acutally driven that many – but all around – ’90 mustang LX
>> : What’s the fastest you’ve ever driven?= 200+
140+ mph ’70 GTO
>> : What’s the highest acceleration " " ?
0-122mph in 11.03 seconds modified 440 challanger.
>> : What’s the highest lateral-g " "?= 1.4 (formula V)
My ’75 corvette should be able to do 1.02 g’s according to Herb Adams VSE.
>> : What’s the most expensive?
Uncles BMW 5 series
>> : What’s the coolest looking….?
My ’69 corvette convertable – although only driven up and down driveway…
> : Slowest?…
Chevy chevette with drivng instructor (6’4" 230+lbs), another student(
about 150lbs) and my self (6’3" 185lbs). 60 mph was attained on the
highway after approximately 1 min of full throttle acceloration.
> : Best Ride?…
??? My father’s old 98 with the touring package. If sports cars count – my
long time ago ex-girlfriend’s Porsche 928S – only drove it one (her father
owned a car dealership)
> : Worst Ride?…
Easy, my wifes ’88 jeep wrangler – and I though my ’75 chevy blazer was bad
..
> : Favorite Current?…
I really kinda in-between cars. Neither of my corvettes is "one the road"
– the blazer is too old an needs too much work. And the Audi is
underpowered – although quattro is nice. I guess the ’87 Audi 5000S
quattro – but I’m hoping the ’69 vette will be much better.
Dirk
What’s the best car you’ve ever driven? Mercedes 560 SEC
What’s the fastest you’ve ever driven? High 180′s Ferrari 365GTBB
(Race Prepped)
What’s the highest acceleration " " ? 0-60 in 1.9 sec…Yoshimura
stage III GSX-R 1100
What’s the highest lateral-g " "? Barber Pro SAAB over 1 G
What’s the most expensive? Ferrari 365 GTBB
What’s the coolest looking….? Ferrari 365 GTBB
Sean Alexander (aka SKALEX)
In article <CsFHJE….@Yuri.CC.Uni-Augsburg.DE>
wur…@teflon.RZ.Uni-Augsburg.DE "Martin Wurzer" writes:
> Jon N. Steiger (stei0…@mary.cs.fredonia.edu) wrote:
> : Andrea Rosso (ro…@lark.NoSubdomain.NoDomain) wrote:
> : : I was just wondering, to start a good thread, about the following:
> : : What’s the best car you’ve ever driven? BMW Z1 Roadster
> : : What’s the fastest you’ve ever driven? new Porsche 911
> : : What’s the highest acceleration " " ? Porsche 911RS /I have ever…
> : : What’s the highest lateral-g " "? I don’t know too
> : : What’s the most expensive? Jaguar V12 or Mercedes, I don’t know
> : : What’s the coolest looking….? Porsche 911, BMW Z1 or Ferrari 356
I’ve tried most of those, wouldn’t necessarily agree or disagree, but one
important category is missed out there:
What’s the most fun car you’ve ever driven? A Morris Minor Convertible.
No worrying about speeding tickets with 48BHP!
Graham
Andrea Rosso wrote:
>What’s the best car you’ve ever driven?
94 Acura NSX.
>What’s the fastest you’ve ever driven?
145mph. I-65, just south of Birmingham, AL in a 92 Nissan NX2000.
>What’s the highest acceleration " " ?
Saleen Mustang 5.0. Unmeasurably frightening.
-David
St> Andrea Rosso (ro…@lark.NoSubdomain.NoDomain) wrote:
St> : I was just wondering, to start a good thread, about the following:
St> : What’s the best car you’ve ever driven? Suzuki Swift GT
St> : What’s the fastest you’ve ever driven? ’71 Corvette 454
St> : What’s the highest acceleration " " ? ’71 Corvette 454
St> : What’s the highest lateral-g " "? ’87 CRX Si
St> : What’s the most expensive? ’88 Ford Stretch Van
St> : What’s the coolest looking….? ’71 Corvette 454
St> : etc.
More categories? I’m game if anyone else wants to allow me to wax
further reminiscent…..
… Alan Kulwicki #7 1954-1993
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11