Driving automobiles

A number of valid arguments for NOT pacing the vehicle beside you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21kBlaAvWz0&NR=1

Why I’m glad I learned not to pace vehicles from a very early age.


"Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s homosexuallity:
the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie.
: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd…

"Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s ability to operate a vehicle:
I must be doing something right to go 3 1/2 years without a fatal crash.
: http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/msg/a376114ee8a618…

.
posted by admin in Uncategorized and have Comments (24)

24 Responses to “A number of valid arguments for NOT pacing the vehicle beside you”

  1. admin says:

    On Oct 12, 7:22 am, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver

    (Hector Goldstein)" <drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> wrote:
    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21kBlaAvWz0&NR=1

    > Why I’m glad I learned not to pace vehicles from a very early age.

    Saw a couple of idiot drivers yesterday, more than usual – people who
    find themselves in the wrong lane in heavy traffic, put their blinker
    on to change lanes, get pissed off when nobody "lets them over" and
    simply force their way into the other lane – not realizing that the
    drivers in the other lane *can’t see their signal* unless they pull up
    enough that the rear of their car is forward of the A-pillar….  not
    sure how to tell without ESP whether they’re trying to move over or
    just being idiot pacers…

    nate

  2. admin says:

    On Oct 12, 8:49 am, N8N <njna…@hotmail.com> wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > On Oct 12, 7:22 am, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver

    > (Hector Goldstein)" <drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> wrote:
    > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21kBlaAvWz0&NR=1

    > > Why I’m glad I learned not to pace vehicles from a very early age.

    > Saw a couple of idiot drivers yesterday, more than usual – people who
    > find themselves in the wrong lane in heavy traffic, put their blinker
    > on to change lanes, get pissed off when nobody "lets them over" and
    > simply force their way into the other lane – not realizing that the
    > drivers in the other lane *can’t see their signal* unless they pull up
    > enough that the rear of their car is forward of the A-pillar….  not
    > sure how to tell without ESP whether they’re trying to move over or
    > just being idiot pacers…

    > nate

    Not to mention the fact that the act of turning on a turn signal does
    by itself not guaranty a place in the next lane.

  3. admin says:

    On Oct 12, 6:36 am, "John S." <hjs…@cs.com> wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > On Oct 12, 8:49 am, N8N <njna…@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > > On Oct 12, 7:22 am, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver

    > > (Hector Goldstein)" <drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> wrote:
    > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21kBlaAvWz0&NR=1

    > > > Why I’m glad I learned not to pace vehicles from a very early age.

    > > Saw a couple of idiot drivers yesterday, more than usual – people who
    > > find themselves in the wrong lane in heavy traffic, put their blinker
    > > on to change lanes, get pissed off when nobody "lets them over" and
    > > simply force their way into the other lane – not realizing that the
    > > drivers in the other lane *can’t see their signal* unless they pull up
    > > enough that the rear of their car is forward of the A-pillar….  not
    > > sure how to tell without ESP whether they’re trying to move over or
    > > just being idiot pacers…

    > > nate

    > Not to mention the fact that the act of turning on a turn signal does
    > by itself not guaranty a place in the next lane.- Hide quoted text –

    > – Show quoted text –

    But does (as long as they see it) let them know you need to get over.
    They don’t _have_ to let you in though.

    Harry K

  4. admin says:

    On Oct 12, 9:51 am, Harry K <turnkey4…@hotmail.com> wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > On Oct 12, 6:36 am, "John S." <hjs…@cs.com> wrote:

    > > On Oct 12, 8:49 am, N8N <njna…@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > > > On Oct 12, 7:22 am, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver

    > > > (Hector Goldstein)" <drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> wrote:
    > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21kBlaAvWz0&NR=1

    > > > > Why I’m glad I learned not to pace vehicles from a very early age.

    > > > Saw a couple of idiot drivers yesterday, more than usual – people who
    > > > find themselves in the wrong lane in heavy traffic, put their blinker
    > > > on to change lanes, get pissed off when nobody "lets them over" and
    > > > simply force their way into the other lane – not realizing that the
    > > > drivers in the other lane *can’t see their signal* unless they pull up
    > > > enough that the rear of their car is forward of the A-pillar….  not
    > > > sure how to tell without ESP whether they’re trying to move over or
    > > > just being idiot pacers…

    > > > nate

    > > Not to mention the fact that the act of turning on a turn signal does
    > > by itself not guaranty a place in the next lane.- Hide quoted text –

    > > – Show quoted text –

    > But does (as long as they see it) let them know you need to get over.
    > They don’t _have_ to let you in though.

    Right.  If traffic is so heavy/slow that following distance is less
    than a car length, I might consider letting someone over if I knew
    that was what they wanted.

    This whole discussion could be avoided if NHTSA would mandate side
    turn signal repeaters like the rest of the civilized world…

    nate

  5. admin says:

    In article <ue1vg3lo7d1bim4es0rqurj3rqbv4le…@4ax.com>,
    Scott in SoCal  <scottenazt…@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >BTW, here’s another mile marker in the continuing dumbing-down of the
    >American driver: instead of teaching drivers how to change lanes
    >correctly, automakers started adding turn signals to the bottoms of
    >the side mirrors and to the side marker lights. That way, dumbasses
    >can sit there and beg to be let in without worring about whether their
    >turn signals can be seen.

    Actually, those extra turn signals have been required by ECE regulations.
    Without those extra turn signals, the area in the next lane slightly behind
    the car is a double blind zone — the driver behind cannot see the other
    car’s turn signals, but his/her car is in the zone that is most likely
    within the ahead driver’s mirror blind spot (based on the way most drivers
    have their side mirrors set to uselessly duplicate their center mirror
    coverage).  Obviously, pacing another car in that zone is not very safe.

    Not that it makes much difference in the US anyway, since most drivers in
    the US don’t use turn signals.


    ————————————————————————
    Timothy J. Lee
    Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
    No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

  6. admin says:

    In article <l6mug396o0lb180h4qvmisplll4gu2p…@4ax.com>, Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) wrote:

    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21kBlaAvWz0&NR=1

    > Why I’m glad I learned not to pace vehicles from a very early age.

    Now I know how those barrels at the divergences get smashed and where the
    marks on the jersey barriers get made… I look at the damage and wonder
    how someone could hit like that…. now I know.

  7. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    N8N wrote:
    >On Oct 12, 9:51 am, Harry K <turnkey4…@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >> On Oct 12, 6:36 am, "John S." <hjs…@cs.com> wrote:

    >> > On Oct 12, 8:49 am, N8N <njna…@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >> > > On Oct 12, 7:22 am, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver

    >> > > (Hector Goldstein)" <drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> wrote:
    >> > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21kBlaAvWz0&NR=1

    >> > > > Why I’m glad I learned not to pace vehicles from a very early age.

    >> > > Saw a couple of idiot drivers yesterday, more than usual – people who
    >> > > find themselves in the wrong lane in heavy traffic, put their blinker
    >> > > on to change lanes, get pissed off when nobody "lets them over" and
    >> > > simply force their way into the other lane – not realizing that the
    >> > > drivers in the other lane *can’t see their signal* unless they pull up
    >> > > enough that the rear of their car is forward of the A-pillar….  not
    >> > > sure how to tell without ESP whether they’re trying to move over or
    >> > > just being idiot pacers…

    >> > > nate

    >> > Not to mention the fact that the act of turning on a turn signal does
    >> > by itself not guaranty a place in the next lane.- Hide quoted text –

    >> > – Show quoted text –

    >> But does (as long as they see it) let them know you need to get over.
    >> They don’t _have_ to let you in though.

    >Right.  If traffic is so heavy/slow that following distance is less
    >than a car length, I might consider letting someone over if I knew
    >that was what they wanted.

    >This whole discussion could be avoided if NHTSA would mandate side
    >turn signal repeaters like the rest of the civilized world…

    >nate

    Perhaps the NHTSA has observed the same thing that I have, in that
    signal lights on motor vehicles driven by Americans are useless pieces
    of equipment, anyway.

    "Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s homosexuallity:
    the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie.
    : http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd

    "Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s ability to operate a vehicle:
    I must be doing something right to go 3 1/2 years without a fatal crash.
    : http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/msg/a376114ee8a618

  8. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    Scott in SoCal wrote:
    >N8N <njna…@hotmail.com> said in rec.autos.driving:

    >>Saw a couple of idiot drivers yesterday, more than usual – people who
    >>find themselves in the wrong lane in heavy traffic, put their blinker
    >>on to change lanes, get pissed off when nobody "lets them over" and
    >>simply force their way into the other lane – not realizing that the
    >>drivers in the other lane *can’t see their signal* unless they pull up
    >>enough that the rear of their car is forward of the A-pillar….  not
    >>sure how to tell without ESP whether they’re trying to move over or
    >>just being idiot pacers…

    >BTW, here’s another mile marker in the continuing dumbing-down of the
    >American driver: instead of teaching drivers how to change lanes
    >correctly, automakers started adding turn signals to the bottoms of
    >the side mirrors and to the side marker lights. That way, dumbasses
    >can sit there and beg to be let in without worring about whether their
    >turn signals can be seen.

    >Pay special attention to which kinds of vehicles are equipped with
    >turn signals in their mirrors. Think about the demographics to which
    >such vehicles are targeted. Hint: Corvettes don’t have them. :)

    Hint: Corvettes will, soon enough.

    "Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s homosexuallity:
    the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie.
    : http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd

    "Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s ability to operate a vehicle:
    I must be doing something right to go 3 1/2 years without a fatal crash.
    : http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/msg/a376114ee8a618

  9. admin says:

    Brent P wrote:
    >In article <l6mug396o0lb180h4qvmisplll4gu2p…@4ax.com>, Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) wrote:
    >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21kBlaAvWz0&NR=1

    >> Why I’m glad I learned not to pace vehicles from a very early age.

    >Now I know how those barrels at the divergences get smashed and where the
    >marks on the jersey barriers get made… I look at the damage and wonder
    >how someone could hit like that…. now I know.

    Proof in point that too many stupid people are procreating. :-)

    "Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s homosexuallity:
    the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie.
    : http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd

    "Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s ability to operate a vehicle:
    I must be doing something right to go 3 1/2 years without a fatal crash.
    : http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/msg/a376114ee8a618

  10. admin says:

    Scott in SoCal wrote:
    >"Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein)"
    ><drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> said in rec.autos.driving:

    >>Hint: Corvettes will [have turn signals in their side mirrors],
    >>soon enough.

    >What evidence do you have to support that conclusion?

    I dunno; observation of the past? Won’t surprise me if this feature
    shows up on almost all vehicles besides the bare bones models, within
    the next five years.

    "Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s homosexuallity:
    the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie.
    : http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd

    "Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s ability to operate a vehicle:
    I must be doing something right to go 3 1/2 years without a fatal crash.
    : http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/msg/a376114ee8a618

  11. admin says:

    Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) wrote:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > Scott in SoCal wrote:

    >>"Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein)"
    >><drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> said in rec.autos.driving:

    >>>Hint: Corvettes will [have turn signals in their side mirrors],
    >>>soon enough.

    >>What evidence do you have to support that conclusion?

    > I dunno; observation of the past? Won’t surprise me if this feature
    > shows up on almost all vehicles besides the bare bones models, within
    > the next five years.

    Sounds like a good idea to me (or alternately ECE style fender repeaters
    behind the front wheels.)

    nate


    replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
    http://members.cox.net/njnagel

  12. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    Nate Nagel wrote:
    >Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein) wrote:
    >> Scott in SoCal wrote:

    >>>"Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein)"
    >>><drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> said in rec.autos.driving:

    >>>>Hint: Corvettes will [have turn signals in their side mirrors],
    >>>>soon enough.

    >>>What evidence do you have to support that conclusion?

    >> I dunno; observation of the past? Won’t surprise me if this feature
    >> shows up on almost all vehicles besides the bare bones models, within
    >> the next five years.

    >Sounds like a good idea to me (or alternately ECE style fender repeaters
    >behind the front wheels.)

    I think it’s a good idea only because the apparent mentality of the
    average american driver has declined a great deal over the years, and
    this might help to improve safety somewhat. It’s still a useless
    feature if the moron driving the vehicle doesn’t use signals, though.

    "Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s homosexuallity:
    the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie.
    : http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd

    "Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s ability to operate a vehicle:
    I must be doing something right to go 3 1/2 years without a fatal crash.
    : http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/msg/a376114ee8a618

  13. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    Scott in SoCal wrote:
    >"Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein)"
    ><drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> said in rec.autos.driving:

    >>Scott in SoCal wrote:
    >>>"Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein)"
    >>><drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> said in rec.autos.driving:

    >>>>Hint: Corvettes will [have turn signals in their side mirrors],
    >>>>soon enough.

    >>>What evidence do you have to support that conclusion?

    >>I dunno

    >That’s what I thought. :)

    >>Won’t surprise me if this feature
    >>shows up on almost all vehicles besides the bare bones models, within
    >>the next five years.

    >Adding stuff like this costs carmakers money. Historically, they will
    >drop a feature even if it only saves them a nickle per car; when they
    >produce several million cars per year, even the nickles add up.

    I agree whole heartedly. However, I’ve observed that a lot of
    "options" on higher end vehicles end up trickling down, as the
    manufacturers refine their manufacturing processes and reduce the
    production expense. I’ve also observed that a lot of "needless"
    equipment has been deemed "safety" equipment, and has been legislated
    into our vehicles.

    >Remember back in the 60s when cars came with those little triangular
    >vent windows? GM dropped those back in 1968 as a cost-saving measure,
    >and the other carmakers followed suit.

    I remember those.

    >Based solely on historical evidence, I would expect them to REMOVE
    >features like these, not ADD them – unless there was some compelling
    >reason to do so. Compelling reasons might be new government
    >regulations (which is why cars have soft plastic noses and tails with
    >5 MPH crash bumpers concealed underneath), or competitive pressures
    >("my competitors all have 6-speed transmissions in their sports cars,
    >so I have to put one in mine").

    >Until the US government starts requiring turn signls in the mirrors or
    >Porsche starts putting turn signals in the mirrors of 911s, I don’t
    >expect to see them in a Corvette anytime soon – just as I don’t expect
    >to see a Corvette with one of those "mommy, daddy, and three little
    >brats" stick-figure stickers in the back window.

    But either of those scenarios *may* occur. I’ll wager on the govment
    getting involved, because someone will think the extra turn signal
    illumination will be a safety feature, much like the stupid little
    middle brake light we now find as standard equipment on all vehicles.

    "Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s homosexuallity:
    the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie.
    : http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd

    "Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s ability to operate a vehicle:
    I must be doing something right to go 3 1/2 years without a fatal crash.
    : http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/msg/a376114ee8a618

  14. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    Scott in SoCal wrote:
    >Nate Nagel <njna…@roosters.net> said in rec.autos.driving:

    >>Sounds like a good idea to me (or alternately ECE style fender repeaters
    >>behind the front wheels.)

    >In my case they aren’t necessary, as I don’t plod along with my turn
    >signal flashing and beg to be "let in" – I find a gap, signal, and
    >change lanes decisively into the gap. When my turn signals are active,
    >I’m never in a position where the affected drivers cannot see them;
    >I’m well in front of them, positioned next to an empty spot in their
    >lane into which I am about to merge.

    >Turn singals in the side mirrors are for dumbass soccer moms who don’t
    >know how to drive (or, more specifically, to protect the rest of us
    >from dumb soccer moms who don’t know how to drive).

    100% agreement.

    Question: what is the ratio of drivers who understand proper signal
    utilization (thus obliterating one of the arguments for signaled
    mirrors) to clueless soccer moms and others of her ilk?

    "Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s homosexuallity:
    the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie.
    : http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd

    "Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s ability to operate a vehicle:
    I must be doing something right to go 3 1/2 years without a fatal crash.
    : http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/msg/a376114ee8a618

  15. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    Scott in SoCal wrote:
    > "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein)"
    > <drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> said in rec.autos.driving:

    >>Scott in SoCal wrote:

    >>>"Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein)"
    >>><drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> said in rec.autos.driving:

    >>>>Hint: Corvettes will [have turn signals in their side mirrors],
    >>>>soon enough.

    >>>What evidence do you have to support that conclusion?

    >>I dunno

    > That’s what I thought. :)

    >>Won’t surprise me if this feature
    >>shows up on almost all vehicles besides the bare bones models, within
    >>the next five years.

    > Adding stuff like this costs carmakers money. Historically, they will
    > drop a feature even if it only saves them a nickle per car; when they
    > produce several million cars per year, even the nickles add up.

    > Remember back in the 60s when cars came with those little triangular
    > vent windows? GM dropped those back in 1968 as a cost-saving measure,
    > and the other carmakers followed suit.

    > Based solely on historical evidence, I would expect them to REMOVE
    > features like these, not ADD them – unless there was some compelling
    > reason to do so. Compelling reasons might be new government
    > regulations (which is why cars have soft plastic noses and tails with
    > 5 MPH crash bumpers concealed underneath), or competitive pressures
    > ("my competitors all have 6-speed transmissions in their sports cars,
    > so I have to put one in mine").

    > Until the US government starts requiring turn signls in the mirrors or
    > Porsche starts putting turn signals in the mirrors of 911s, I don’t
    > expect to see them in a Corvette anytime soon – just as I don’t expect
    > to see a Corvette with one of those "mommy, daddy, and three little
    > brats" stick-figure stickers in the back window.

    Well, see, here’s what I don’t get.  Porsche has been required for years
    to use some sort of side repeater in Europe for decades, but they come
    up with different US-spec parts (e.g. the fender for a 944 is a
    different part number for Europe vs. NA as the European fender has a
    punched recess and hole for the repeater.)

    I have seen some mfgrs. dropping this practice, notably VW which has
    included the repeaters in US-spec cars at least since the introduction
    of the A4.

    nate


    replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
    http://members.cox.net/njnagel

  16. admin says:

    In article <feqold1…@news2.newsguy.com>, Nate Nagel wrote:
    > Well, see, here’s what I don’t get.  Porsche has been required for years
    > to use some sort of side repeater in Europe for decades, but they come
    > up with different US-spec parts (e.g. the fender for a 944 is a
    > different part number for Europe vs. NA as the European fender has a
    > punched recess and hole for the repeater.)
    > I have seen some mfgrs. dropping this practice, notably VW which has
    > included the repeaters in US-spec cars at least since the introduction
    > of the A4.

    I think there was a change in US regulation that allowed the european
    location for a side repeater some time between now and when the 944s were
    built. I am not 100% sure, but I think that may be the case. ECE regulation
    required they be just forward of the doors behind the front wheels while if
    you see older US cars with the repeaters, they are in corner marker
    lights in the fenders with the headlamps or just forward of the the front
    wheels. These being the locations where US regulation allowed the
    required marker lights to be.

  17. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    Brent P wrote:
    > In article <feqold1…@news2.newsguy.com>, Nate Nagel wrote:

    >>Well, see, here’s what I don’t get.  Porsche has been required for years
    >>to use some sort of side repeater in Europe for decades, but they come
    >>up with different US-spec parts (e.g. the fender for a 944 is a
    >>different part number for Europe vs. NA as the European fender has a
    >>punched recess and hole for the repeater.)

    >>I have seen some mfgrs. dropping this practice, notably VW which has
    >>included the repeaters in US-spec cars at least since the introduction
    >>of the A4.

    > I think there was a change in US regulation that allowed the european
    > location for a side repeater some time between now and when the 944s were
    > built. I am not 100% sure, but I think that may be the case. ECE regulation
    > required they be just forward of the doors behind the front wheels while if
    > you see older US cars with the repeaters, they are in corner marker
    > lights in the fenders with the headlamps or just forward of the the front
    > wheels. These being the locations where US regulation allowed the
    > required marker lights to be.

    Yes, that is a valid point.  The 944 does have marker lights in the
    sides of the front valence where there is nothing on the Euro model.
    However, they do not act as repeaters, simply position lights.  I was
    under the impression that the ECE repeaters were not required by NHTSA,
    but not prohibited, either.  (there are many other differences between
    US and ECE 944s in terms of lighting that I didn’t bother to go into
    because I understand the reasoning behind most of them.  In fact, the
    lower mounting of the fog lights in the US models is possibly preferable
    to the ECE models’ location inside the bumper.)

    However, I may have to do more research.  I know that the later A2
    series VW’s (contemporary with my 944, I’m thinking very late 80′s or
    early 90′s) had a Wolfsburg crest badge in the side trim to fill the
    hole that would otherwise be occupied by the repeater, so obviously VW
    didn’t use different stampings at that point but still chose to whip up
    a US-only plastic badge rather than install the repeaters.  Maybe you’re
    right, and there was some regulatory reason why they weren’t installed?

    However, like I said before, I’ve lately seen more and more European and
    even a few Japanese cars being sold with ECE-style repeaters installed,
    and that’s a Good Thing.  Certainly the more people around you that know
    what you’re going to do, the better things are for everyone.

    I’ve thought about doing the flashing side marker mod to the ’44, but
    really, it would not replace the function of the repeater because due to
    the severe flare of the front fenders it would still be completely
    invisible to a driver positioned beside but toward the rear of the car
    (and indeed that is the complaint that I have with most cars on the
    road; you simply can’t see the directionals unless the whole car is
    forward of your driver’s seat.)

    nate


    replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
    http://members.cox.net/njnagel

  18. admin says:

    In article <feqtur0…@news2.newsguy.com>, Nate Nagel wrote:
    > Yes, that is a valid point.  The 944 does have marker lights in the
    > sides of the front valence where there is nothing on the Euro model.
    > However, they do not act as repeaters, simply position lights.  I was
    > under the impression that the ECE repeaters were not required by NHTSA,
    > but not prohibited, either.

    Repeaters are optional, but some cars did have those marker lights
    forward of the wheels act as repeaters.

  19. admin says:

     Scott in SoCal:

    > "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein)"
    > <drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> said in rec.autos.driving:

    > >Hint: Corvettes will [have turn signals in their side mirrors],
    > >soon enough.

    > What evidence do you have to support that conclusion?

    Center highmount brake lights
    Air-bags (and I am not referring to the mother in law)
    Anti-lock brakes
    Traction control……


    Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS admits to driving its beater with
    faulty brakes:

    "Hey stupid – I’ve tried to fix it and i can’t. The cable adjusting
    nuts are rusted solid."
    –Laura Bush – Vehicular Homicide (a.k.a. Laura Bush murdered her
      boyfriend, Pride of America, aunt millie and Judy Dairya,
      among others. See: http://tinyurl.com/ahphj),  
      6 Apr 2005 11:05:54 -0700
    Ref: or9851dpb7a4s8fduf7bf83gab02t9u…@4ax.com
    Ref: http://tinyurl.com/8exv3

  20. admin says:

     Scott in SoCal:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein)"
    > <drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> said in rec.autos.driving:

    > >Scott in SoCal wrote:
    > >>"Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein)"
    > >><drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> said in rec.autos.driving:

    > >>>Hint: Corvettes will [have turn signals in their side mirrors],
    > >>>soon enough.

    > >>What evidence do you have to support that conclusion?

    > >I dunno

    > That’s what I thought. :)

    > >Won’t surprise me if this feature
    > >shows up on almost all vehicles besides the bare bones models, within
    > >the next five years.

    Just like the third brake light and airbags have been mandated by the
    nanny state.

    > Adding stuff like this costs carmakers money. Historically, they will
    > drop a feature even if it only saves them a nickle per car; when they
    > produce several million cars per year, even the nickles add up.

    Or they will make some advertising claims about the "safety," aspect of
    the feature and use that as justification to raise the price of the car
    by a quarter. And, of course, the brain dead american (sic) public will
    lap it up like Jenna Jameson laps up…. well, you get the idea…. :)

    > Remember back in the 60s when cars came with those little triangular
    > vent windows? GM dropped those back in 1968 as a cost-saving measure,
    > and the other carmakers followed suit.

    > Based solely on historical evidence, I would expect them to REMOVE
    > features like these, not ADD them – unless there was some compelling
    > reason to do so. Compelling reasons might be new government
    > regulations (which is why cars have soft plastic noses and tails with
    > 5 MPH crash bumpers concealed underneath), or competitive pressures
    > ("my competitors all have 6-speed transmissions in their sports cars,
    > so I have to put one in mine").

    Give the government time, Scott, Give ‘em time….. ;)

    > Until the US government starts requiring turn signls in the mirrors or
    > Porsche starts putting turn signals in the mirrors of 911s, I don’t

    You never know what they might come up wit next over there…

    > expect to see them in a Corvette anytime soon – just as I don’t expect
    > to see a Corvette with one of those "mommy, daddy, and three little
    > brats" stick-figure stickers in the back window.

    ???


    "I’m all for making the SUV owners park in the rear of the lot.   It
    should be handled like handicapped parking.  A special sticker on the
    plate designating this vehicle as a highway tank that must be parked in
    the tank area."

    –Laura Bush murdered her boyfriend, 10/23/05
    Ref: http://tinyurl.com/dnox5  http://tinyurl.com/c92qg
    Message ID:1130115926.511881.4…@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

  21. admin says:

     Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein):

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    > N8N wrote:
    > >On Oct 12, 9:51 am, Harry K <turnkey4…@hotmail.com> wrote:
    > >> On Oct 12, 6:36 am, "John S." <hjs…@cs.com> wrote:

    > >> > On Oct 12, 8:49 am, N8N <njna…@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > >> > > On Oct 12, 7:22 am, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver

    > >> > > (Hector Goldstein)" <drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> wrote:
    > >> > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21kBlaAvWz0&NR=1

    > >> > > > Why I’m glad I learned not to pace vehicles from a very early age.

    > >> > > Saw a couple of idiot drivers yesterday, more than usual – people who
    > >> > > find themselves in the wrong lane in heavy traffic, put their blinker
    > >> > > on to change lanes, get pissed off when nobody "lets them over" and
    > >> > > simply force their way into the other lane – not realizing that the
    > >> > > drivers in the other lane *can’t see their signal* unless they pull up
    > >> > > enough that the rear of their car is forward of the A-pillar….  not
    > >> > > sure how to tell without ESP whether they’re trying to move over or
    > >> > > just being idiot pacers…

    > >> > > nate

    > >> > Not to mention the fact that the act of turning on a turn signal does
    > >> > by itself not guaranty a place in the next lane.- Hide quoted text –

    > >> > – Show quoted text –

    > >> But does (as long as they see it) let them know you need to get over.
    > >> They don’t _have_ to let you in though.

    > >Right.  If traffic is so heavy/slow that following distance is less
    > >than a car length, I might consider letting someone over if I knew
    > >that was what they wanted.

    > >This whole discussion could be avoided if NHTSA would mandate side
    > >turn signal repeaters like the rest of the civilized world…

    > >nate

    > Perhaps the NHTSA has observed the same thing that I have, in that
    > signal lights on motor vehicles driven by Americans are useless pieces
    > of equipment, anyway.

    Perhaps, if the cops enforced things like turnsignals and KRETP the way
    they enforce speed and DUI…..


    Loco laura bush – VEHICULAR HOMICIDE shows us how stupid it really is
    and that foreign royalty deserves preferential treatment:

    "This driver killed two people!!  Don’t portray her as representing
     the american people!!!  I hope she’s locked up forever and i don’t
     care if she killed a king or a homeless bum."
    — laura bush – VEHICULAR HOMICIDE, 7/13/06

    Ref: http://tinyurl.com/g2fea
    Message ID: fsscb21skmba6iegemv0u6f3n1obeoj…@4ax.com

  22. admin says:

    Nate Nagel wrote:
    >>> "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein)"
    >>> <drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> said in rec.autos.driving:
    >>>> Hint: Corvettes will [have turn signals in their side mirrors], soon
    >>>> enough.
    > Sounds like a good idea to me (or alternately ECE style fender repeaters
    > behind the front wheels.)

    Not the best idea.  Unlike the turn signals in the side mirrors, side
    repeaters can actually be seen by traffic on a side road.  For instance,
    if a car from the main road approaching from your right is preparing to
    take a left turn onto the road you’re waiting to take a left turn out
    of.  With or without the mirror based signals, you’re not going to see
    his turn signal easily.  With a side repeater, it will be quite obvious.

  23. admin says:

    Scott in SoCal wrote:
    > Nate Nagel <njna…@roosters.net> said in rec.autos.driving:

    >>Well, see, here’s what I don’t get.  Porsche has been required for years
    >>to use some sort of side repeater in Europe for decades, but they come
    >>up with different US-spec parts (e.g. the fender for a 944 is a
    >>different part number for Europe vs. NA as the European fender has a
    >>punched recess and hole for the repeater.)

    > Um, lemme guess: could it be CO$T?

    That’s what I don’t understand, you’d think that the cost of producing
    and stocking two different fenders would offset any minimal parts cost.

    nate


    replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
    http://members.cox.net/njnagel

  24. admin says:

    - Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    necromancer wrote:
    > Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver (Hector Goldstein):
    >> N8N wrote:
    >> >On Oct 12, 9:51 am, Harry K <turnkey4…@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >> >> On Oct 12, 6:36 am, "John S." <hjs…@cs.com> wrote:

    >> >> > On Oct 12, 8:49 am, N8N <njna…@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >> >> > > On Oct 12, 7:22 am, "Murderous Speeding Drunken Distracted Driver

    >> >> > > (Hector Goldstein)" <drunk_and_distracted@the_wheel.com> wrote:
    >> >> > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21kBlaAvWz0&NR=1

    >> >> > > > Why I’m glad I learned not to pace vehicles from a very early age.

    >> >> > > Saw a couple of idiot drivers yesterday, more than usual – people who
    >> >> > > find themselves in the wrong lane in heavy traffic, put their blinker
    >> >> > > on to change lanes, get pissed off when nobody "lets them over" and
    >> >> > > simply force their way into the other lane – not realizing that the
    >> >> > > drivers in the other lane *can’t see their signal* unless they pull up
    >> >> > > enough that the rear of their car is forward of the A-pillar….  not
    >> >> > > sure how to tell without ESP whether they’re trying to move over or
    >> >> > > just being idiot pacers…

    >> >> > > nate

    >> >> > Not to mention the fact that the act of turning on a turn signal does
    >> >> > by itself not guaranty a place in the next lane.- Hide quoted text –

    >> >> > – Show quoted text –

    >> >> But does (as long as they see it) let them know you need to get over.
    >> >> They don’t _have_ to let you in though.

    >> >Right.  If traffic is so heavy/slow that following distance is less
    >> >than a car length, I might consider letting someone over if I knew
    >> >that was what they wanted.

    >> >This whole discussion could be avoided if NHTSA would mandate side
    >> >turn signal repeaters like the rest of the civilized world…

    >> >nate

    >> Perhaps the NHTSA has observed the same thing that I have, in that
    >> signal lights on motor vehicles driven by Americans are useless pieces
    >> of equipment, anyway.

    >Perhaps, if the cops enforced things like turnsignals and KRETP the way
    >they enforce speed and DUI…..

    The problem with enforcing turn signals, KRETP, and other issues that
    directly affect safety is that it would remove too many incompetent
    people from the road, and our tax base can’t support that. Better to
    just add "a little tax" to the guy who goes over a number posted on a
    sign, so that he may remain in the work force and generate revenue
    like a good little tax payer.

    "Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s homosexuallity:
    the guys at the bath-house stopped laughing at my 3 inch weenie.
    : http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/168e8e621dd

    "Speeders And Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS" brags of it’s ability to operate a vehicle:
    I must be doing something right to go 3 1/2 years without a fatal crash.
    : http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/msg/a376114ee8a618